From mailbox.syr.edu!naherzin Sat Oct 31 22:45:41 1992 Received: from mailbox.syr.edu ([128.230.18.5]) by watdragon.uwaterloo.ca with SMTP id <168441-3>; Sat, 31 Oct 1992 22:45:40 -0500 Received: from rodan.acs.syr.edu by mailbox.syr.edu (4.1/CNS) id AA11403; Sat, 31 Oct 92 22:46:15 EST Received: by rodan.acs.syr.edu (4.1/Spike-2.0) id AA08183; Sat, 31 Oct 92 22:41:22 EST Message-Id: <9211010341.AA08183@rodan.acs.syr.edu> To: jmsellen@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca Subject: 1992 February Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1992 22:41:21 -0500 From: "neil herzinger" Status: R ***Febuarry 1992*** >From: Scot.Art@f634.n712.z3.fido.zeta.org.au (Scot Art) Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1992 09:23:38 +1100 Subject: Best sample story. To: nh0n+@andrew.cmu.edu > To: Scot.Art@f909.n712.z3.fidonet.org (Scot Art) Interestingly this arrived to me at 3:712/634 not 3:712/909 (?) most wierd but don't worry about that too much. (like as if you'd sent it to Scot.Art@f634.n712.z3.fidonet.org instead). Anyway ... I'm testing this new gateway - it's local and so travels to the USA via the internet not fidonet (therefore quicker and doesn't cost fido individuals money) ... anyway ... > internet.adolph-a-carrot > It's a list for Severed Heads, and stuff on Ralph Records (Residents, > Snake > Finger, etc...). It was actually started here at CMU. I thought as much ... lots of mailing lists run out of cmu don't they? > What's the name? There's a chance I'll come across the booklet. It's the booklet for the latest album (Cuisine with Piscatorial), I don't think it's quite out yet (I saw it at the record company). Maybe it is. You can contact tom at: Tom.Ellard@f634.n712.z3.fidonet.org and ask about the booklet. My band is called Now:Zero. Pretty unlikely you've heard of it. :) ciao, Scot. PS don't add this address to the mailing list (yet). -- Assorted C BBS - 3:712/515@fidonet, asstdc@csource.oz.au -- >From: Thomas Flemming Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1992 14:55:23 +0100 To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Memory-expansion! Hi, just wanted to inform you about a mememory expansion that's available for S-330 and W-30. The company that makes them is called Pa-Decoder and is sited in Germany I think. I called their scandinavian agent the other day and they told me the product was so expensive and poor that they didn't have stock it. You could expand your RAM up to 13MB, but you would only have one set of banks available at time. In other words you had to swap the RAM. And a another thing; doubling the RAM would cost you about $1000! Each extra additional 1 MB expansion would cost you about $500. Sounds like overexpensive crap to me. A good idea would be to exhange the poor sample ROM's with some new ones, like 909 drums and acoustic piano, or some kind of RAM. It would at least double the W-30's memory. BTW! I called Roland Norway the other day and told them that I didn't have the latest system disk, and they posted it to me rigth away. No questions asked and no charge! PS! I have a lot of dance CD's at home, and offcourse I have to sample when I hear a separated sound. So if there is any interest I migth make a couple of compilations disks and snail-mail it to gfd. Also I have some disks with bass sounds, but I think they'll only work on W-30's. Have forgiveness with my poor english folks. -Thomas Flemming -- Date: Fri, 14 Feb 92 00:40:21 -0500 (EST) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Sgroup Subject: Re: Memory-expansion! >PS! I have a lot of dance CD's at home, and offcourse I have to sample >when I hear a separated sound. So if there is any interest I migth >make a couple of compilations disks and snail-mail it to gfd. Also I have some >disks with bass sounds, but I think they'll only work on W-30's. Of course. Please contribute, the library needs to grow. I don't think much has been contributed for a whole year! (myself at fault too...) >Have forgiveness with my poor english folks. Forgive us for having such a crappy language as english, and forcing the world to its standard... As a side note, are many people on this list involved in experimental music, industrial, or just sound sculpture? Most of what I've done recently is in this direction and I'd be glad to contribute to the library if there is any interest. I just don't want to send three disks of slowed down vocoded short wave bursts if there is no interest..... (then again, these sounds could possibly be incorporated into other music...) neil -- Date: Fri, 14 Feb 92 00:59:38 -0500 (EST) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Sgroup Subject: The Future of this Group Well, as I'll be graduating in May and leaving the fine institution of Carnegie Mellon University, my account will be deleted (possibly not for a few months, but eventually). The life of the sgroup depends on the existance of my account, so we need to find a new site to keep it alive. I am formally asking for any solutions/offers to this problem. I thought I'd start now and give us a few months time to work it out. Looking forward to responces. neil -- >From: david!david@cis.ohio-state.edu (David A. Roth) To: nh0n+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: The Future of this Group Date: Fri, 14 Feb 92 07:47:37 EST Cc: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu In Regards to your letter : > > Well, as I'll be graduating in May and leaving the fine institution of > Carnegie Mellon University, my account will be deleted (possibly not for a > few months, but eventually). The life of the sgroup depends on the existance > of my account, so we need to find a new site to keep it alive. > > I am formally asking for any solutions/offers to this problem. I thought I'd > start now and give us a few months time to work it out. Looking forward to > responces. > > neil What do people think of perhaps creating a newsgroup like alt.roland.sgroup ? David -- >From: david!david@cis.ohio-state.edu (David A. Roth) To: nh0n+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: The Future of this Group Date: Fri, 14 Feb 92 07:47:40 EST Cc: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu In Regards to your letter : > > Well, as I'll be graduating in May and leaving the fine institution of > Carnegie Mellon University, my account will be deleted (possibly not for a > few months, but eventually). The life of the sgroup depends on the existance > of my account, so we need to find a new site to keep it alive. > > I am formally asking for any solutions/offers to this problem. I thought I'd > start now and give us a few months time to work it out. Looking forward to > responces. > > neil What do people think of perhaps creating a newsgroup like alt.roland.sgroup ? David -- Date: Sun, 16 Feb 92 10:18 EST >From: gfd@usl.com (G Demarest +1 908 522 6363) To: att!andrew.cmu.edu!Sgroup+@usl.usl.com Subject: Re: Memory-expansion! 12-bitters: > >PS! I have a lot of dance CD's at home, and offcourse I have to sample > >when I hear a separated sound. So if there is any interest I migth > >make a couple of compilations disks and snail-mail it to gfd. Also I have so me > >disks with bass sounds, but I think they'll only work on W-30's. > > Of course. Please contribute, the library needs to grow. I don't think much > has been contributed for a whole year! (myself at fault too...) > > > >Have forgiveness with my poor english folks. For those who don't know, Thomas speaks fluent sampling... > Forgive us for having such a crappy language as english, and forcing the > world to its standard... I like english. Let's post in Esparanto from now on... :-) > As a side note, are many people on this list involved in experimental music, > industrial, or just sound sculpture? Most of what I've done recently is in > this direction and I'd be glad to contribute to the library if there is any > interest. I just don't want to send three disks of slowed down vocoded > short wave bursts if there is no interest..... (then again, these sounds could > possibly be incorporated into other music...) Yes, we need some new blood. The more out there the better as far as I'm concerned. There are only so many baroque oboe samples you can use... > neil -- Date: Sun, 16 Feb 92 11:08:57 CST >From: Jason Keeler Subject: Memory expansion To: Sgroup Seeing as how there has been talk about memory expansion for our beloved S-seri es samplers, I thought I'd post some additional information (something I should have done about a month ago!) PA-Decoder is actually based in the US: PA-DECODER 1258 South Ogden Drive Los Angeles, CA 90019 (213) 938-8924 I spoke to (at least whom I was told I spoke to) the engineer who actually buil t these expansion boards (horrible english!). He explained that this expansion COULD have been SUBSTANTIALLY cheaper if they could have set it up to make use of standard SIMMS. Unfortunately, this was not possible and had to use Rol and's configuration. The suggested RETAIL price of the W-30/S-330 BASIC MEMORY EXPANSION INCL. 1 RAM-CARD is $898US; however, through PA-DECODER they are sel ling it for $498US. For those who expand the S-330, you also get a new 2U rack for your unit (due to the additional hardware requirements). If anyone wants a complete listing of prices/products let me know; This one's for Thomas; which DANCE MUSIC CD's do you have? I have the Soundsource Datafile 1 CD (which is very good). ...Jason -- >From: Thomas Flemming Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1992 15:33:32 +0100 To: KEELERJA@max.cc.uregina.ca Cc: SGROUP+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: Memory expansion I have taken criticism and have run this through a spelling checker. But I can't play with this language as you folks do. Maybe it's a about time someone for ones comes up with a request. Is there anybody out there which got any Moog-samples, preferably bass sounds. My opinion is that it's enough drum samples in the lib already. What about more drum loops and other house stuff? Jason: I have a couple of compilation CD's with dance music by various artists. Maybe I by one sample CD if I get someone else to share the price. BTW Can you get the full price/product list from PA-Decoder. In particular the ST-software to edit S-series disks directly. -Thomas -- Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1992 12:32:32 -0500 (EST) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Sgroup Subject: Re: Memory expansion Cc: Sgroup >Maybe it's a about time someone for ones comes up with a request. >Is there anybody out there which got any Moog-samples, preferably >bass sounds. My opinion is that it's enough drum samples in the lib >already. What about more drum loops and other house stuff? There is a moog bass sample on one of my Proteus disks (in the library). The sound is of course taken from a Proteus, but that was probably an original sample. neil -- Date: Thu, 20 Feb 92 09:17 EST >From: gfd@usl.com (G Demarest +1 908 522 6363) To: att!andrew.cmu.edu!Sgroup+@usl.usl.com Subject: Re: Memory expansion > From: Neil Anthony Herzinger > To: Sgroup > Subject: Re: Memory expansion > > >Maybe it's a about time someone for ones comes up with a request. > >Is there anybody out there which got any Moog-samples, preferably > >bass sounds. My opinion is that it's enough drum samples in the lib > >already. What about more drum loops and other house stuff? > > There is a moog bass sample on one of my Proteus disks (in the library). > The sound is of course taken from a Proteus, but that was probably an > original sample. There is also a full disk of Moog Bass sounds in the Roland Library, fairly well done. I'd like some more industrial/house stuff. Perhaps I'll do something this weekend. > neil gfd -- Date: Sun, 23 Feb 92 17:57:29 PST >From: Scot.Art@f634.n712.z3.fidonet.org (Scot Art) Subject: The Future of this Group To: sgroup@andrew.cmu.edu >> I am formally asking for any solutions/offers to this problem. I thought I > What do people think of perhaps creating a newsgroup like > alt.roland.sgroup ? Well, if I can get a hold of a feed (we have problems getting feeds for some ne wsgroups, particularly alt. groups), I am all for it. Maybe, tho, rec.music.syn th.roland.sampler could be a more appropriate place, if unwieldy. :-) What abou t alt.roland.sampler? <= would be more obvious what it is for. ciao, Scot. -- uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!3!712!634!Scot.Art Internet: Scot.Art@f634.n712.z3.fidonet.org -- Date: Sun, 23 Feb 92 17:57:40 PST >From: Scot.Art@f634.n712.z3.fidonet.org (Scot Art) Subject: Memory-expansion! To: sgroup@andrew.cmu.edu > As a side note, are many people on this list involved in experimental > music, > industrial, or just sound sculpture? Most of what I've done recently Yes, heavily into "art music" here (very bad pun not intended). I'll have plent y of samples you'll be interested in, I've just got to remember to copy them to send them into the library! ciao. -- uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!3!712!634!Scot.Art Internet: Scot.Art@f634.n712.z3.fidonet.org -- Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1992 12:38:52 -0500 (EST) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Sgroup Subject: Re: Memory-expansion! Cc: >Yes, heavily into "art music" here (very bad pun not intended). I'll have plent >y of samples you'll be interested in, I've just got to remember to copy them to > send them into the library! Please do! I will eventually get around to dumping a few disks off on George. neil -- >From: wes@Athena.MIT.EDU To: Neil Anthony Herzinger Cc: Sgroup Subject: Re: Memory-expansion! Date: Mon, 24 Feb 92 13:33:51 EST For those of us unclear on the concept, I take it there is a storehouse of samples in someone's basement somewhere and someone will make me a copy of same if I send him/her something specific, probably including a bunch of blanks, some postage, and maybe a disk or two of my own samples? 'zis true? If so, what's the Whole Story? Also, what can anybody tell me about the versions of the S-550 system and of Director-S's? It seems I have S-550 system version 1.01 and Director-S version 1.00. A while back someone mentioned having an updated version of one of the two -- I don't know which -- with an offer to upgrade in return for disk and postage. Can that person please please refresh my memory? In short, what are the latest systems for the S-550 and for Director-S , how do they each differ from the original version, and how can I get them? Thanks, Wes Carroll (wes@athena.mit.edu) -- Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1992 01:06:03 -0500 (EST) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Sgroup Subject: Re: Memory-expansion! >>> I take it there is a storehouse of samples in someone's basement somewhere and someone will make me a copy of same if I send him/her something specific, probably including a bunch of blanks, some postage, and maybe a disk or two of my own samples? 'zis true? If so, what's the Whole Story? >>> There are two important files for people interested in the library, the guidelines and the list. I've already sent them off to wes. If you want 'em just ask me. Or maybe I'll do a general post. neil -- Date: Tue, 25 Feb 92 10:05 EST >From: gfd@usl.com (G Demarest +1 908 522 6363) To: andrew.cmu.edu!Sgroup+@usl.usl.com Subject: I thought you'd never ask Well, Generally when you join the group, God (alias Neil) should send out the guidelines for contributing/retreiving samples from the Sgroup Library. Obviously, that stressful student lifestyle has taken its toll on Neil. So: > Fron: Wes Carroll (wes@athena.mit.edu) > Subject: Re: Memory-expansion! > > For those of us unclear on the concept, > > I take it there is a storehouse of samples in someone's basement > somewhere and someone will make me a copy of same if I send him/her > something specific, probably including a bunch of blanks, some postage, > and maybe a disk or two of my own samples? 'zis true? If so, what's > the Whole Story? Actually, it is in my basement. 'zis true. Read On! > Also, what can anybody tell me about the versions of the S-550 > system and of Director-S's? It seems I have S-550 system version 1.01 > and Director-S version 1.00 Some good soul just sent in the latest S-550 OS. I can't recall what the version # is. I'll check this out tonight when I get home. I don't know anything about Director-S... > Thanks, > Wes Carroll (wes@athena.mit.edu) Guidelines are below, sample list will follow. ======================Obtaining Samples from The S-Group===================== (revised 1/13/92 OK, here we go. Some very basic guidelines: 1. disks sent and received should not contain Roland library samples unless seriously (and usefully) deranged to the point of non-recognition. 2. Every disk you send should be FORMATTED (I have both S-50 and S-330/S-550) and labeled. Unformatted disks will likely be returned empty and unformatted. Make sure you make note what machine they are formatted for. 3. Access to the S-library depends on your participation alone. A single contribution in earnest to the library will get you access to the entire library. Think of your contribution as the initiation fee. From then on, you can request any disks in the library. Please limit to 10 disks each mailing. 4. I had originally thought of limiting my activities to drum samples but I think I'll do whatever. I'm not particularly interested in acoustic instrument samples (get a proteus) unless they are unusual or extremely good. However, no samples of better than marginal quality will be rejected regardless of subject matter. --ed I have yet to reject any samples. 5. For the most part, I'm not going to spend a lot of time looping these samples because of the time involved. Nor will I do much vel-fades or splits or whatever. Expect tones, not patches. 6. Return addressed postage (you know, SASE) is mandatory. I need stamped addressed envelopes or I'll wait until you send them. Sorry, no exceptions. The SASE should also have YOUR address as the return address. For people in countries outside the US who send money for posting: this does not exempt you from supplying a self-addressed envelope. Also, payment for postage should be in US currency. 7. For those of you who just want disks for nothing: if you send formatted disks, I'll send something back: WHEN TIME ALLOWS. It could be weeks, it could be months: no promises. Folks that send sounds: I'll do my best for a week turnaround. 8. Use your imagination. Nobody wants 20 samples from Star Trek no matter how cute they are. We're making music, not video games :-). 9. My Address: George Demarest 110 East Fairview Avenue South Plainfield, NJ 07080 (908) 52206363 (weekdays) 10. Sample everything! I especially like synth stuff, samples for House-type stuff, drum samples, noises. 11. Please, sample all sounds at 30K sampling rate (unless you intentionally wish to have a real nasty sound - NEIL!!!!). There really is a difference! 12. Send me e-mail describing what and when you are sending me. Please do this before you send it out. I read mail every day and respond immediately to anything I get. 13. Include a list of sounds that you have already gotten from me if applicable. This will eliminate the possibility of you getting the same stuff more than once. 14. Please refrain from sending samples that you have bought from someone else. Not that I'm afraid of getting sued, more so that it's not fair to them. Do your own sampling! 15. Samples can be sent on DAT tape. I have DAT and an easy way of getting DAT data down to the samplers. Of course, don't send 60 minutes worth of samples on DAT, but if there is a stereo sample that you think is exceptional, send it on DAT. All tapes will be returned intact unless otherwise requested. 16. DO NOT send originals. Send me copies of your sounds. You never know what you may get back! :-) =========================== Bonus Request ==================================== Eric C. did me the courtesy of actually printing the names of the disks he wanted on his pre-formatted disk labels. This makes it very clear and very easy for me to know exactly what you want. I wont demand this from all you jokers out there, but, it did speed up the process. A+ for Eric! =========================== Bogus Request ==================================== Someone else included a note that said, among other things, "I hope I have included enough postage...". People who don't send enough postage will receive melted disks. =========================== Disclaimer Request =============================== If you find that these guidelines are a pain, let me suggest that you take over this job from me. I don't covet this task and will do it only as long as people don't abuse the service/my time. I'm a musician, not a librarian: if people don't take the time to do this thing right, I'm outa here. 'nuff said. gfd -- Date: Tue, 25 Feb 92 10:10 EST >From: gfd@usl.com To: att!andrew.cmu.edu!Sgroup+@usl.usl.com Subject: Sample list Here is the current list of samples. It has not changed since I last posted it, but here it is anyway. gfd RTFG =============================================================================== Sample List as of 1/13/92 Supplier Instrument Comments =============================================================================== D. Tycholis Yamaha RX-5* drum machine (complete) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Neil Kawai R-100* drum machine (complete) (Neil) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- R. Walter Alesis HR-16* drum machine ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gfd Oberheim Matrix 1000 analog synth (2 full disks). bass sounds, square wave lead, electronic percussion-type sounds (in a kit). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Neil Roland D-50 pads (half a disk) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gfd Korg M3r (1 disk; others soon) Bass, lead sound, Acoustic Bass layer ed with conga (very nice). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gfd Korg SG-1D sampled grand (1 disk) sampled by a friend. Very interesting stereo effect makes you seem like you're "inside" the piano. very nice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- all Miscelaneous guitar shots, CD player fast forwarding, chordal vocal samples, DX rhodes sound, ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- D. Tycholis Assorted Basses bass-type samples from DX7, Steinberger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- T. Flemming stabs & effects some stereo, brass, orchestral shots. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- T. Flemming stabs & synths more stabs, korg synths, synth basses. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- T. Flemming assorted voices speech clips such as "Hit it!", "This is a Journey into Sound" and others. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- T. Flemming JB samples Assorted James Brown Owws, Yeahs and other-worldy noises. Includes some groove samples. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- D. Tycholis MC Hammer Samples of raw instrumentals of "U Can't Touch Dis" including some choice quotes. This package includes a sequence disk for the Mac Sequencer "performer" that strings the samples together for an S-550. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- W. Fox Money Samples from the beginning of Pink Floyd's song _Money_ and some voices. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gfd trumpet samples mellow trumpet sound multi-sample. Sampled in my studio. Also hard attack. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- T. Flemming Alesis HR-16B drum machine (2 disks) (complete). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- T. Flemming Roland TR808 TR909 drum machines. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gfd Roland R8 Rock set (2 disks) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gfd Roland R8 Latin set ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gfd Roland R8 Ethnic set ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gfd Roland R8 Electronic set ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gfd Roland R8 Jazz set (with brushes) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gfd Roland R8 Power set (2 disks) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gfd Roland R8 Sound Effects set ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gfd Roland R8 TR707/505 set ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gfd Roland R8 Mallet set ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gfd Korg M3r drum sounds, with new deranged sounds added. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Neil Industrial 1 steel spikes, disk sanders, clangs, bangs and booms. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Neil Industrial 2 lawn mowers from hell, doors closing and more. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Neil Guitar riffs guitar screeches, chords and riffs. fool your friends! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Neil Distorted drums these are some of the noisiest, ugliest, crackliest drum sounds you'll ever meet. Two thumbs up! Direct evidence of Neil's rapidly dementing mind. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Neil Proteus 1 - 5 5 disks of Proteus samples. Haven't heard them yet. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eric C. Roland D-110 drum samples. (2 disks) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Erik FX sound fx. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- T. Flemming Bolero! A do it yourself kit for Ravel's Bolero. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gfd Synclavier Percussion tablas (7 samples), flanged tablas, kick (basketball), and snare (pistol shot). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gfd Synclavier Winds Jazz Ensemble (Sax trombone and trumpet) (Awesome in the low register). Brass Ensemble (trombone trumpet) Nice for hits. Flute chirps (also awesome in the low register). ============================================================================ -- Date: Tue, 25 Feb 92 10:50 EST >From: gfd@usl.com To: att!andrew.cmu.edu!Sgroup+@usl.usl.com Subject: oops I mis-posted my daytime number: it is (908) 522-6363. gfd . -- Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1992 00:28:04 -0500 (EST) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Sgroup Subject: Re: I thought you'd never ask >>> Generally when you join the group, God (alias Neil) should send out the guidelines for contributing/retreiving samples from the Sgroup Library. Obviously, that stressful student lifestyle has taken its toll on Neil. >>> HEY! Lightning will strike your keyboard... I make the guidelines/sample list files optional so people don't have to weed through big text files if they're not interested. 4 midterms in 3 days and I still have time for my beloved sgroup :-P There's been a couple of suggestions on the new homesite for the group. With a distribution list of ~40 people, do you think there's enough interest to warrant a board? I'm not sure, but I won't be around either.... neil -- Date: Wed, 26 Feb 92 01:15:06 -0500 >From: "John M. Sellens" To: nh0n+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: I thought you'd never ask | From nh0n+@andrew.cmu.edu Wed Feb 26 00:36:31 1992 | From: Neil Anthony Herzinger | To: Sgroup | Subject: Re: I thought you'd never ask | | There's been a couple of suggestions on the new homesite for the group. With | a distribution list of ~40 people, do you think there's enough interest to | warrant a board? I'm not sure, but I won't be around either.... I probably have the time to manage a mailing list of 40 people, and I can find a computer to put it on, *and* I can probably find a place to make things available via ftp. So if you're still looking for someone to pass this on to ... John Sellens U of Waterloo (staff - so I'm here for a life sentence) jmsellens@watdragon.waterloo.edu -- Date: Wed, 26 Feb 92 12:12:42 EST >From: Arsenio R SantosJr To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Long live rec.roland.samplers! Being a rnews spectator and submitter for years, I can assure y'all that 40 people is enough to warrant a board. Some boards only get one article per week or so. -Sinn P.S.: You wouldn't have any S-10 samples? -- ReSent-From: Neil Anthony Herzinger ReSent-To: Sgroup Date: Wed, 26 Feb 92 09:25 EST >From: gfd@usl.com (G Demarest +1 908 522 6363) To: Neil Anthony Herzinger Subject: Re: I thought you'd never ask > I make the guidelines/sample list files optional so people don't have to weed > through big text files if they're not interested. I see, then when someone asks for the guidelines and the sample list, then I post it and WE ALL have to wade through large text files. Make it mandatory! > 4 midterms in 3 days and I still have time for my beloved sgroup :-P Midterms? What are they? :-) > There's been a couple of suggestions on the new homesite for the group. With > a distribution list of ~40 people, do you think there's enough interest to > warrant a board? I'm not sure, but I won't be around either.... I think David Roth has already looked into this. David? > neil -- Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1992 12:56:31 -0500 (EST) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Sgroup Subject: Re: I thought you'd never ask >>> I probably have the time to manage a mailing list of 40 people, and I can find a computer to put it on, *and* I can probably find a place to make things available via ftp. >>> OK, I'll start a list of options. We can bash the problem around for the next couple of months and then decide. Thanks for the offer. neil -- Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1992 13:03:58 -0500 (EST) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Sgroup Subject: Re: I thought you'd never ask >>> I see, then when someone asks for the guidelines and the sample list, then I post it and WE ALL have to wade through large text files. Make it mandatory! >>> Well, I did send them to him before your post arrived BUT, I'll take your suggestion and send the files automatically. a deity who can admit it's wrong, neil -- >From: david!david@cis.ohio-state.edu (David A. Roth) To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: I thought you'd never ask Date: Thu, 27 Feb 92 00:33:30 EST In Regards to your letter : > > > > I make the guidelines/sample list files optional so people don't have to we ed > > through big text files if they're not interested. > > I see, then when someone asks for the guidelines and the sample list, > then I post it and WE ALL have to wade through large text files. Make > it mandatory! > > > 4 midterms in 3 days and I still have time for my beloved sgroup :-P > > Midterms? What are they? :-) Do they still give Midterms in college? I figured charging you $80k for 4-5 years of hell was enough! :-) > > > There's been a couple of suggestions on the new homesite for the group. Wi th > > a distribution list of ~40 people, do you think there's enough interest to > > warrant a board? I'm not sure, but I won't be around either.... > > I think David Roth has already looked into this. David? I created an alt.roland.sgroup and cross posted the test to rec.music.synth. So far no one has screamed. :-) From what I have been told you can create a newsgroup in alt. for whatever you want and you don't need net admin people's "approval". I've never created a newsgroup before so I don't know what the next step is. I assume there is some offical place to make an announcement. George's notes about the guidelines and other info about the newsgroup could be posted monthly as a FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions.) I leave George to create the FAQ because I'm sure with his deep New York roots he will be able to come up with some entertaining answers. :-) > > > > neil Well, Neil, I think the sgroup has been a wonderful thing you started including the Hypercard stack. I hope that when you leave college and enter the work force that you can find a group of talented people that will respect you for your creativity and being so resourceful. The group shot of the family on the first screen of the Hypercard stack is a scream. David -- >From: david!david@cis.ohio-state.edu (David A. Roth) To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: I thought you'd never ask Date: Thu, 27 Feb 92 00:36:50 EST In Regards to your letter : > >>> > I probably have the time to manage a mailing list of 40 people, and I > can find a computer to put it on, *and* I can probably find a place > to make things available via ftp. > >>> > > OK, I'll start a list of options. We can bash the problem around for the next > couple of months and then decide. Thanks for the offer. > > neil As PeeWee might say, "FTP sounds like a pretty cool deal to me, Ha-Haa!" I like the mailing list too. Perhaps making it a newsgroup might mess things up like it did for the Funky Mailing list. David "I know you are, but what am I?" - Pee Wee Herman -- Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1992 01:25:39 -0500 (EST) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Sgroup Subject: Re: I thought you'd never ask >Do they still give Midterms in college? I figured charging >you $80k for 4-5 years of hell was enough! :-) Well, we are paying for maximum pain here at CMU... :-P >I created an alt.roland.sgroup and cross posted the test >to rec.music.synth. So far no one has screamed. :-) Cool. So should we all subscribe now and see what happens? We can crosspost to the distribution list @andrew if need be. >Well, Neil, I think the sgroup has been a wonderful thing >you started including the Hypercard stack. I hope that when >you leave college and enter the work force that you can find >a group of talented people that will respect you for your >creativity and being so resourceful. Wow, thanks! I guess it would help if I fixed up the stack. I'm sure I can add some useful things, and make a general release of it. neil -- Date: Thu, 27 Feb 92 02:33:06 -0500 >From: "John M. Sellens" To: david!david@cis.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: I thought you'd never ask Cc: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu | From nh0n+@andrew.cmu.edu Thu Feb 27 01:52:26 1992 | From: david!david@cis.ohio-state.edu (David A. Roth) | To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu | Subject: Re: I thought you'd never ask | Organization: DAVID A. ROTH MUSIC | Reply-To: david!david@cis.ohio-state.edu ( David A. Roth ) | | | I created an alt.roland.sgroup and cross posted the test | to rec.music.synth. So far no one has screamed. :-) I've been watching for the control message to get here, and I don't think it ever did. Is it possible it didn't escape your site? | From what I have been told you can create a newsgroup in alt. | for whatever you want and you don't need net admin people's | "approval". I've never created a newsgroup before so I | don't know what the next step is. I assume there is some | offical place to make an announcement. alt.config - it helps if you mention it, and put something about it in the control message, which will encourage sysadmins to create and pass the group. If not enough people create it and pass it around, the group is less than useless, because there is no connectivity. I think my personal opinion might lean towards mailing list rather than newsgroup. John Sellens jmsellens@watdragon.waterloo.edu -- Date: Wed, 26 Feb 92 21:57:26 PST >From: Scot.Art@f634.n712.z3.fidonet.org (Scot Art) Subject: Memory-expansion! To: nh0n@andrew.cmu.edu > Please do! I will eventually get around to dumping a few disks off > on George. OK, OK, I'll do it tomorrow. :) ciao -- uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!3!712!634!Scot.Art Internet: Scot.Art@f634.n712.z3.fidonet.org -- >From: Don Law Date: Thu, 27 Feb 92 10:58:38 EST To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: Long live rec.roland.samplers! > From: Arsenio R SantosJr > P.S.: You wouldn't have any S-10 samples? I have an S-10 and plan to cut a path to the S-group library. It should be finished in a year or so! (There are a few projects of higher priority.) I'll keep you posted. --Don Law dlaw@gould.encore.com ...!uunet!gould!dlaw --Ada Development, MS404 --Encore Computer Corporation ***** In the computer lab, ***** --Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33313 ***** No one can hear you scream. ***** >From: Don Law Date: Thu, 27 Feb 92 11:07:25 EST To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: alt.roland.sgroup out there yet? >I created an alt.roland.sgroup and cross posted the test >to rec.music.synth. So far no one has screamed. :-) I picked up your post to rec.music.synth some time ago, but my site still does not see anything called alt.roland.sgroup. If y'all start posting to it, please notifiy sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu. Thanks! --Don Law dlaw@gould.encore.com ...!uunet!gould!dlaw --Ada Development, MS404 --Encore Computer Corporation ***** In the computer lab, ***** --Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33313 ***** No one can hear you scream. ***** -- >From: kyle@aloft.att.com Date: Thu, 27 Feb 92 13:08:06 EST To: nh0n+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Sam Ash blowout I just received a flyer from Sam Ash and they are advertising the S-550 for $995.95!! If anybody is looking, that's a great price. kyle kyle@aloft.att.com -- ReSent-From: Neil Anthony Herzinger ReSent-To: Sgroup Date: Thu, 27 Feb 92 09:10 EST >From: gfd@usl.com (G Demarest +1 908 522 6363) To: att!andrew.cmu.edu!nh0n+@usl.usl.com Subject: A nwe York stat of mind >From: david!david@cis.ohio-state.edu (David A. Roth) To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu > > George's notes about the guidelines and other info about > the newsgroup could be posted monthly as a FAQ (Frequently > Asked Questions.) I leave George to create the FAQ because > I'm sure with his deep New York roots he will be able to > come up with some entertaining answers. :-) Example: Q. How many New Yorkers does it take to screw in a light-bulb? A. Who the F**k wants to know?! > Well, Neil, I think the sgroup has been a wonderful thing > you started including the Hypercard stack. I hope that when > you leave college and enter the work force that you can find > a group of talented people that will respect you for your > creativity and being so resourceful. aw, now ya went an gone all mushy on us. Neil, ya big lug! This Bud's fer yoo.... :-! gfd -- Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1992 23:52:24 -0500 (EST) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Sgroup Subject: Re: Too bad you're leaving.... >>> ust wanted to add my two cents and say that I'm also sorry you're leaving. I guess there comes a time when we all must leave...mine comes a year from now. I'm curious; what exactly are you taking at college? >>> Well I'm not dead yet!! Thanks though :-) I am majoring in graphic communications management, I hate it. I want to go to grad school in computer interface design. We'll see... As a general note, the distribution list has been giving me a lot of problems lately, and with my lack of time I just as soon kill it. So, in other words, I'm all for the newsgroup (and soon!) neil -- >From: david!david@cis.ohio-state.edu (David A. Roth) To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Fwd: [david@david.UUCP (David A. Roth)]New newsgroups alt.roland.sgroup Date: Fri, 28 Feb 92 00:21:26 EST Forward of article <0105009A.t6c4d3@david.UUCP> from david@david.UUCP (David A. Roth): The Roland Sample Users Group mailing list is going public folks! It looks like the mailing list will still be around for a little while longer until everyone gets alt.roland.sgroup. ( sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu) I've never created a newsgroup before and I hope I am going about it in the right way to avoid endless talks about if the group is needed or not. A brief description of what the newsgroup is for and I hope the system admin for news for your site adds this. Those interested in music newsgroups including rec.music.synth that use Roland Samplers will be *VERY* interested in this group! The mailing listed contains users of Roland Samplers. Can't more simple than that but they are a great bunch of people that have got their act together and formed a LIBRARY OF SAMPLES FOR FREE provided you supply a formatted disk and SASE. Most of the samples in the library have been created and tweaked by members currently on the mailing list. After many talks in the mailing list a kind person has decided to write some code to enable samples to be traded over the net and so far one has offered to be an FTP site to store the samples. This may not sound like a big deal to many of you but the Roland disk format can't be simply uploaded/downloaded the way it is without some special software. This will be especially helpful with sharing samples with the world. Also, a prototype has been developed to keep track of samples in your own library so far in the format of a Hypercard stack. If I am not going about creating this newsgroup in the proper manner for alt newsgroup please inform not flame! :-) A description of the samples in the library and other info is expected to be posted to alt.roland.sgroup. Best Wishes! David -- >From: wes@Athena.MIT.EDU To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: Fwd: [david@david.UUCP (David A. Roth)]New newsgroups alt.roland.s group Date: Fri, 28 Feb 92 11:46:22 EST This just occurred to me; sorry if it's too late. > From: david!david@cis.ohio-state.edu (David A. Roth) > If I am not going about creating this newsgroup in the proper > manner for alt newsgroup please inform not flame! :-) I think that it might be better to call the group something like alt.MUSIC.foobar, or at least something more ... well, informative than just roland.sgroup. The way I see it, "roland.sgroup" means "the group of S-series samplers by Roland" only in the appropriate context. Out of context, I doubt I could parse "sgroup"... and the "roland" hint might not help much. It just seems that it would be nice to give outsiders a clue as to what we're about by our name, if we can. alt.music.roland_sgroup, for instance, since sgroup isn't so much a subset of Roland in the same way that synth is a subset of music. Wes Carroll (wes@athena.mit.edu) -- Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1992 16:45:25 -0500 (EST) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Sgroup Subject: Re: [david@david.UUCP (David A. Roth)]New newsgroups alt.roland.sgroup Cc: >I think that it might be better to call the group something like >alt.MUSIC.foobar, or at least something more ... well, informative than >just roland.sgroup. The way I see it, "roland.sgroup" means "the group >of S-series samplers by Roland" only in the appropriate context. Out of >context, I doubt I could parse "sgroup"... and the "roland" hint might >not help much. I have to agree with this. Would it be to much to call it alt.music.synth.roland.sgroup ?!?!?!? That's the best cognitive description (yeah I know we're dealing with samplers, not synths, but that's a common term :-) neil -- >From: david!david@cis.ohio-state.edu (David A. Roth) To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: [david@david.UUCP (David A. Roth)]New newsgroups alt.roland.sgroup Date: Fri, 28 Feb 92 18:55:16 EST In Regards to your letter : > >I think that it might be better to call the group something like > >alt.MUSIC.foobar, or at least something more ... well, informative than > >just roland.sgroup. The way I see it, "roland.sgroup" means "the group > >of S-series samplers by Roland" only in the appropriate context. Out of > >context, I doubt I could parse "sgroup"... and the "roland" hint might > >not help much. > > I have to agree with this. Would it be to much to call it > alt.music.synth.roland.sgroup ?!?!?!? That's the best cognitive > description (yeah I know we're dealing with samplers, not synths, but > that's a common > term :-) > > neil Considering that I just found out today what exactly a control message is I don't know the limits of newsgroup names. Boy, you guys...some people complain if you hang them with a new rope! :-) I read some atl.config and this is what I found out: Xref: uncle alt.config:4840 news.admin:12555 news.groups:30835 Newsgroups: alt.config,news.admin,news.groups Path: uncle!n8emr!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!darwin.sura.net!ukma!widener !gvlf3.gvl.unisys.com!gvlf8-o.gvl.unisys.com!markw >From: markw@gvlf8-o.gvl.unisys.com (Mark H. Weber) Subject: How (and why) to create a new "alt" group Message-ID: <1992Jan31.174750.23447@news.gvl.unisys.com> Sender: news@news.gvl.unisys.com (The NEWS user) Nntp-Posting-Host: gvlf8-o Reply-To: markw@gvlf8-o.gvl.unisys.com (Mark H. Weber) Organization: Unisys Defense Systems, Great Valley Labs, Paoli, Pa Followup-To: alt.config Date: Fri, 31 Jan 92 17:47:50 GMT Expires: 1 Mar 92 00:00:01 GMT There are no rules or guidelines for creation of "alt" groups, but there does appear to be an established procedure which goes something like this: 1) Propose a new alt group in alt.config. The proposal should include a charter or purpose for the new group, and some demonstration of the need for the group. Be prepared to explain why an existing group cannot be used for this purpose, and why the group should be in "alt" rather than in one of the mainstream hierarchies (like "rec", "sci", etc.). Avoiding the complexity of the mainstream group creation procedure is not a very good reason, groups should not be created in "alt" just because it's easier. The distribution of "alt" groups is (in general) more limited than that of mainstream "rec" or "sci" groups, so if you're proposing a serious group for which you would like to have wide distribution, try to get a mainstream group created before proposing an alt group. 2) See what the alt.net.opinion of the new group is. Wait a few days for replies to trickle in from the far corners of the net. Pay particular attention to feedback on the name of the group, as mis-named groups are almost impossible to to rename. If the consensus (however you determine that) is that the group should be created, then proceed to step 3. (these first two steps are often ignored, which usually leads to unpleasantness in step 4 below) 3) Post a "newgroup" control message. The message should contain a description of the group being created. If you don't know how to do this, check with your news administrator. If you ARE your news administrator, and you can't figure it out from the documentation you have (or don't have any documentation) send me mail and I will help you. NOTE that many sites do NOT automatically honor "newgroup" and "rmgroup" control messages, the news software at these sites will send mail to the news administrator, who will evaluate your request and decide whether or not to create the group. It may take a couple of days for the control message to propagate and be acted upon, so don't expect instant availability of the new group, particularly if you post the control message on a Friday night. You should also post a message to alt.config announcing the creation of the new group. Give the newgroup control message some time to propagate and be acted upon, (one working day, for example), and then post a message to the new group explaining its purpose. Don't cross- post this message to alt.config, as the posters who follow-up to this message will invariably forget to delete alt.config from the newsgroups line. You may need to post several introductory messages, as some administrators will not create the group until they see messages for it showing up in their "junk" group. 4) Let the individual site news administrators decide whether to honor your "newgroup" message. Most admins prefer that the message come from a verifiable account, messages which are obviously forged, or have not been discussed in alt.config and contain no explanation will probably not be honored by many sites. Persons opposed to the group, or admins who feel that the newgroup message was a forgery may send out "rmgroup" messages to try to sabotage the group. It may take several iterations of this process to firmly establish the new group. It has been humorously suggested that only alt groups which get 100 more "newgroup" than "rmgroup" messages should be established. However, these "rmgroup wars" are annoying to news administrators, and reduce the overall acceptance (and distribution) of the "alt" hierarchy. This is the reason that steps 1 and 2 above are important. This may sound like a lot of rigamarole, and it is. The purpose is to discourage creation of alt groups that might be better off as mainstream groups, or that might be better of left uncreated. Don't take this all too seriously, though. The "alt" net is the last remaining refuge away from the control freaks, namespace purists and net.cops (like myself) that maintain and support the mainstream newsgroup guidelines. There is still some room for spontaneity out here on the "alt" frontier, and successful groups have been created without following these suggestions. Almost any non-forged, serious newgroup message will at least be considered by most news admins. Some groups have been created just on a whim. The concept behind the group better be good (or a least entertaining), though! -- Mark H. Weber | Internet: markw@GVL.Unisys.COM Paramax Systems (A Unisys Co.) | UUCP: ...!gvlv2!markw Great Valley Laboratories | FAX: +1 215 648 2891 Box 517, Paoli, PA 19301 USA | VOICE: +1 215 648 2112 -- >From: david!david@cis.ohio-state.edu (David A. Roth) To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: Fwd: [david@david.UUCP (David A. Roth)]New newsgroups alt.roland.s group Date: Sat, 29 Feb 92 00:31:31 EST In Regards to your letter <9202281646.AA01882@binkley.MIT.EDU>: > This just occurred to me; sorry if it's too late. > > > From: david!david@cis.ohio-state.edu (David A. Roth) > > If I am not going about creating this newsgroup in the proper > > manner for alt newsgroup please inform not flame! :-) > > I think that it might be better to call the group something like > alt.MUSIC.foobar, or at least something more ... well, informative than > just roland.sgroup. The way I see it, "roland.sgroup" means "the group > of S-series samplers by Roland" only in the appropriate context. Out of > context, I doubt I could parse "sgroup"... and the "roland" hint might > not help much. > > It just seems that it would be nice to give outsiders a clue as to what > we're about by our name, if we can. > > alt.music.roland_sgroup, for instance, since sgroup isn't so much a > subset of Roland in the same way that synth is a subset of music. > > Wes Carroll > (wes@athena.mit.edu) Is that too long? I don't know. Actually, alt.music.roland.samplers would be really helpful if that's not too long. Anyone care to talk to their NetNews admin guru and find out? I don't care how it gets done, I just don't want the newsgroup/mailing to go away. I would take over the mailing list from my site if I had the disk space but I don't. David -- Date: Sat, 29 Feb 92 19:35:14 CST >From: Jason Keeler Subject: Access to alt.roland.samplers To: Neil Hi; As excited as I am about going public with this group, one thing worries me: I don't know if I will have access to it!!! I'm quite versed in the workings o f networks (including the internet) however, in my studies I've never had a cha nce to really look into 'newsgroups' such as rec.music.synth. My understanding was that this type of 'news' was only available to USENET user s; has this been changed to that internet users can have access? Will I be able to access this new group?