From mailbox.syr.edu!naherzin Sat Oct 31 21:21:56 1992 Received: from mailbox.syr.edu ([128.230.18.5]) by watdragon.uwaterloo.ca with SMTP id <168418-2>; Sat, 31 Oct 1992 21:21:50 -0500 Received: from rodan.acs.syr.edu by mailbox.syr.edu (4.1/CNS) id AA10690; Sat, 31 Oct 92 21:21:38 EST Received: by rodan.acs.syr.edu (4.1/Spike-2.0) id AA03254; Sat, 31 Oct 92 21:16:52 EST Message-Id: <9211010216.AA03254@rodan.acs.syr.edu> To: jmsellen@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca Subject: 1990 November Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1992 21:16:50 -0500 From: "neil herzinger" Status: R >From: g.f.demarest@mtdca.att.com To: att!andrew.cmu.edu!Sgroup+@mtdca.att.com Date: 1 Nov 1990 9:40 EST Subject: monitors > >Also, anyone on this list who uses the samplers without a monitor, I > >can't emphasize enough how useful it is. Get a cheapo monochrome > > monitor and plug it in. > > Amen, bro'....I could not handle sampling without my monitor. > > For some of our newer members who missed my post in August 90, there is an > adapter available to connect your TV to the S-series samplers for $99.95. If > interested, I can re-post the details. Ouch! 100 Bucks... these people have no conscience... > > Don gfd -- >From: g.f.demarest@mtdca.att.com To: att!andrew.cmu.edu!Sgroup+@mtdca.att.com Date: 1 Nov 1990 9:23 EST Subject: Meese Appeal Or is that Piece Meal? First an announcement: Thomas Flemming has sent in the Alesis HR16B drum machine samples to the lib. Included there are samples from the classic Roland TR808 and TR909 (if memory serves). I haven't finished EQ'ing etc (although they haven't needed much (nice job Thomas!)) yet but will by the weekend. Let me also remind you that the samples you send in don't have to be the worlds best. I'm not rating them. I will try to imrove on those that I can. But don't feel that your efforts are not "good enough". It's only your effort itself that motivates me to keep the lib moving. I've been pretty lame of late in the sampling dept. But that'll change soon. Those who wish for a current listing of the library, send me mail and I'll deal with it off line. If I get enough requests, I'll just post it. >I will be putting together some disks of DW-8000 and M1 sounds, as well as some > MIDI stacks of the both along with an MKS-20. I also am learning how to use > Turbosynth, and will be making some of those samples available. I'm > still trying to get the hang of looping, but if anyone wants to trade me > for un-looped samples, lets do it. I really want to expand my library. Samples don't have to be looped to go into the lib... > As I learn the art of looping, I will have some looped stuff available. Also, > if you have any samples that would make good partials for Turbosynth to build > upon, send them to me and I will try to create some cool renditions from the > original samples. Perhaps you should give examples of what sounds would typically work well with TurboSynth. Also what TurboSynth can do. I'm sure that I'm not the only one that would be interested in hearing about it. gfd -- >From: att!WLV.IMSD.CONTEL.COM!pete%WLBR@mtdca.att.com Date: Thu, 1 Nov 90 09:08:09 -0800 To: att!andrew.cmu.edu!Sgroup+@mtdca.att.com, gfd@mtdca.att.com Subject: Re: Meese Appeal Sure - why not just post the current library as it stands... Also, could you re-post addresses/#'s as fair as mailing in samples goes? Pete -- >From: g.f.demarest@mtdca.att.com To: att!andrew.cmu.edu!Sgroup+@mtdca.att.com Date: 1 Nov 1990 13:33 EST Subject: lib etc > Subject: Re: Meese Appeal > > Sure - why not just post the current library as it stands... > > Also, could you re-post addresses/#'s as fair as mailing in samples > goes? The library and guidelines for sending samples are now >120 lines. I want to wait until I get a few requests before I send such a large file to everyone's mailbox. I'll send the stuff out to you right away, Pete. gfd > Pete Date: Thu, 1 Nov 90 15:07:11 -0500 (EST) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Sgroup Subject: Re: Lib etc I, personally, don't mind if you post to the group. neil (Those samples will be one day, I promise.....) -- Date: Thu, 1 Nov 90 15:08:29 -0500 (EST) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Sgroup Subject: that last post... Of course, it would make more sense if I included the word 'done'.... neil (Those samples will be DONE one day, I promise....) -- >From: g.f.demarest@mtdca.att.com To: att!andrew.cmu.edu!Sgroup+@mtdca.att.com Date: 2 Nov 1990 10:19 EST Subject: Sam Ash blowing out S-330 Just to let you know that Sam Ash is blowing out the Roland S-330 sampler for $1095 right now. A fine machine as you all know. Free enlistment in the Sgroup for all takers :-)... gfd -- >From: g.f.demarest@mtdca.att.com To: att!andrew.cmu.edu!Sgroup+@mtdca.att.com Date: 2 Nov 1990 12:17 EST Subject: sample lib and guidelines Ok, I have gotten quite a few requests so I take it that mailing these out wont break your backs. Please, PlEaSe, PLEASE read the guidelines carefully! ======================Obtaining Samples from The S-Group===================== (revised 10/10/90) OK, here we go. Some very basic guidelines: 1. disks sent and received should not contain Roland library samples unless seriously (and usefully) deranged to the point of non-recognition. 2. Every disk you send should be FORMATTED (I have both S-50 and S-330/S-550) and labeled. Unformatted disks will likely be returned empty and unformatted. Make sure you make note what machine they are formatted for. 3. For every disk of sounds you send, you'll get the original back (tweaked if necessary and time permitting) plus 2 disks filled. That is, if you send me one sound disk and 2 additional empty FORMATTED disks, you get 3 full disks back. A note on what type of samples you would like would help me choose. Otherwise, I'll send out a "best of" series. Limit 10 disks total. 4. I had originally thought of limiting my activities to drum samples but I think I'll do whatever. Make a note that I'm not particularly interested in acoustic instrument samples (get a proteus) unless they are unusual or extremely good. 5. For the most part, I'm not going to spend a lot of time looping these samples because of the time involved. Nor will I do much vel-fades or splits or whatever. Expect tones, not patches. 6. Return addressed postage (you know, SASE) is mandatory. I need stamped addressed envelopes or I'll wait until you send them. Sorry, no exceptions. 7. For those of you who just want disks for nothing: if you send formatted disks, I'll send something back: WHEN TIME ALLOWS. It could be weeks, it could be months: no promises. Folks that send sounds: I'll do my best for a week turnaround. (I know I haven't been absolutely sterling in my turn-around performance to date; things should be smoother now - gfd). 8. Use your imagination. Nobody wants 20 samples from Star Trek no matter how cute they are. We're making music, not video games :-). 9. My Address: George Demarest 110 East Fairview Avenue South Plainfield, NJ 07080 (201) 957-6392 (weekdays) 10. Sample everything! I especially like synth stuff, samples for House-type stuff, drum samples, noises. 11. Please, sample all sounds at 30K sampling rate. There really is a difference! 12. Send me e-mail describing what and when you are sending me. 13. Include a list of sounds that you have already gotten from me if applicable. This will eliminate the possibility of you getting the same stuff more than once. 14. Please refrain from sending samples that you have bought from someone else. Not that I'm afraid of getting sued, more so that it's not fair to them. Do your own sampling! 15. Samples can be sent on DAT tape. I have DAT and an easy way of getting DAT data down to the samplers. Of course, don't send 60 minutes worth of samples on DAT, but if there is a stereo sample that you think is exceptional, send it on DAT. All tapes will be returned intact unless otherwise requested. 16. DO NOT send originals. Send me copies of your sounds. You never know what you may get back! :-) 17. Samples must not be used to barter for Iraqi petroleum. ============================================================================== Sample List as of 9/17/90 Supplier Instrument Comments ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ D. Tycholis Yamaha RX-5* drum machine (complete) Neil Kawai R-100* drum machine (complete) (Neil) R. Walter Alesis HR-16* drum machine gfd Oberheim Matrix 1000 analog synth (2 full disks). bass sounds, square wave lead, electronic percussion-type sounds (in a kit). Neil Roland D-50 pads (half a disk) gfd Korg M3r (1 disk; others soon) Bass, lead sound, Acoustic Bass layered with conga (very nice). gfd Korg M3r* drum sounds gfd Korg SG-1D sampled grand (1 disk) sampled by a friend. Very interesting stereo effect makes you seem like you're "inside" the piano. very nice. all Miscelaneous guitar shots, CD player fast forwarding, chordal vocal samples, DX rhodes sound, ********* new releases!! ************** D. Tycholis Assorted Basses bass-type samples from DX7, Steinberger T. Flemming stabs & effects some stereo, brass, orchestral shots. T. Flemming stabs & synths more stabs, korg synths, synth basses. T. Flemming assorted voices speech clips such as "Hit it!", "This is a Journey into Sound" and others. T. Flemming JB samples Assorted James Brown Owws, Yeahs and other-worldy noises. Includes some groove samples. D. Tycholis MC Hammer Samples of raw instrumentals of "U Can't Touch Dis" including some choice quotes. This package includes a sequence disk for the Mac Sequencer "performer" that strings the samples together for an S-550. W. Fox Money Samples from the beginning of Pink Floyd's song _Money_ and some voices. gfd trumpet samples mellow trumpet sound multi-sample. Sampled in my studio. Also hard attack. T. Flemming Alesis HR-16B drum machine (complete). T. Flemming Roland TR808 TR909 drum machines. ============================================================================ *note: all drum sounds are saved by instrument, not by machine. Current drum library consists of: 1 snare disk 1 kick disk 1 Tom disk 1 conga,bonga, timbale disk 2 percussion disks A "best of" disk is forthcoming... **** note 10/10/90 I think that if I get the time, I will archive them both ways since I've had requests. I'll post notification when I finish... **** note 11/2/90 Although I still haven't totally finished with this task, I will accept requests for drum sounds by "machine". Those 16B samples are too juicy to do without! -- Date: Fri, 2 Nov 1990 13:01:37 PST >From: DTycholis.LAX1B@xerox.com Subject: Re: monitors To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.EDU Cc: gfd@mtdca.att.COM >Ouch! 100 Bucks... these people have no conscience... This must be a ripe area for ripoffs (aka "healthy profit margins"), 'cause RCA wants over $150 for a similar adapter which just converts the audio/video outputs from my video camera into an RF signal to feed to the TV! c'mon, folks, ten years ago I paid less than $100 for my Colecovision PLUS 2 CONTROLLERS and Donkey Kong....doesn't the output stage/converter of that Z-80 computer do the same thing? Oh well, we return you to regular programming now.... tycho -- Date: Fri, 2 Nov 1990 13:06:57 PST >From: DTycholis.LAX1B@xerox.com Subject: Re: turbosynth To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.EDU I'd certainly like to know more about it and how you use it, what it seems to do the best, etc. And I'd be happy to help donate useful partials as well. tycho (aka Don) -- >From: g.f.demarest@mtdca.att.com To: att!andrew.cmu.edu!Sgroup+@mtdca.att.com Date: 6 Nov 1990 16:49 EST Subject: change in guidelines I have re-thought some of the guidelines I had set down earlier. I felt that the tone of the guidelines may have been a little alienating. The main change is in item #3. I no longer feel it necessary for people to contribute every time they wish to get something from the list. If you contribute once, in earnest, you should feel free to request any sounds in the library from then on. There really is some good stuff in there now and it seemed a shame only a few have been able to keep samples coming in. So, those of you who have sent something in, it's open season. For those of you who still are on the sidelines, get acouple of disks of sounds together and you'll have access to some pretty impressive stuff. I would request that those who do take full advantage of the library to, in turn, contribute in kind. Needless to say, I still have fears of dozens of empty disks coming in and more grunge work for me. But there, the gauntlet has been thrown. Happy sampling! gfd -- P.S. Also, even some of the "veteran" samplers have been fairly lame in following some of the simple, time-saving requests I have outlined before. Please be more considerate of my time... ======================Obtaining Samples from The S-Group===================== (revised 11/6/90) OK, here we go. Some very basic guidelines: 1. disks sent and received should not contain Roland library samples unless seriously (and usefully) deranged to the point of non-recognition. 2. Every disk you send should be FORMATTED (I have both S-50 and S-330/S-550) and labeled. Unformatted disks will likely be returned empty and unformatted. Make sure you make note what machine they are formatted for. 3. Access to the S-library depends on your participation alone. A single contribution in earnest to the library will get you access to the entire library. Think of your contribution as the initiation fee. From then on, you can request any disks in the library. Please limit to 10 disks each mailing. 4. I had originally thought of limiting my activities to drum samples but I think I'll do whatever. I'm not particularly interested in acoustic instrument samples (get a proteus) unless they are unusual or extremely good. However, no samples of better than marginal quality will be rejected regardless of subject matter. 5. For the most part, I'm not going to spend a lot of time looping these samples because of the time involved. Nor will I do much vel-fades or splits or whatever. Expect tones, not patches. 6. Return addressed postage (you know, SASE) is mandatory. I need stamped addressed envelopes or I'll wait until you send them. Sorry, no exceptions. 7. For those of you who just want disks for nothing: if you send formatted disks, I'll send something back: WHEN TIME ALLOWS. It could be weeks, it could be months: no promises. Folks that send sounds: I'll do my best for a week turnaround. 8. Use your imagination. Nobody wants 20 samples from Star Trek no matter how cute they are. We're making music, not video games :-). 9. My Address: George Demarest 110 East Fairview Avenue South Plainfield, NJ 07080 (201) 957-6392 (weekdays) 10. Sample everything! I especially like synth stuff, samples for House-type stuff, drum samples, noises. 11. Please, sample all sounds at 30K sampling rate. There really is a difference! 12. Send me e-mail describing what and when you are sending me. 13. Include a list of sounds that you have already gotten from me if applicable. This will eliminate the possibility of you getting the same stuff more than once. 14. Please refrain from sending samples that you have bought from someone else. Not that I'm afraid of getting sued, more so that it's not fair to them. Do your own sampling! 15. Samples can be sent on DAT tape. I have DAT and an easy way of getting DAT data down to the samplers. Of course, don't send 60 minutes worth of samples on DAT, but if there is a stereo sample that you think is exceptional, send it on DAT. All tapes will be returned intact unless otherwise requested. 16. DO NOT send originals. Send me copies of your sounds. You never know what you may get back! :-) 17. Samples must not be used to barter for Iraqi petroleum. -- >From: g.f.demarest@mtdca.att.com To: att!andrew.cmu.edu!Sgroup+@mtdca.att.com Date: 12 Nov 1990 9:42 EST Subject: Jackpot! Well, I hit the jackpot this weekend! I got the complete set of Roland R8 samples!! That's not just internal sounds, but (I think) every available sound card. Right now they're all on my Mac in SD II format, but will be sent down to the samplers soon. They were sampled at 44.1k with 16-bit resolution but should still work very well for the samplers. Anyway, I'm going to send the sound lib again (but will spare you the guidelines). BY NOW, THE GUIDELINES SHOULD BE ETCHED INTO YOUR SOULS. :-) Yeehah! gfd ============================================================================== Sample List as of 11/12/90 Supplier Instrument Comments ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ D. Tycholis Yamaha RX-5* drum machine (complete) Neil Kawai R-100* drum machine (complete) (Neil) R. Walter Alesis HR-16* drum machine gfd Oberheim Matrix 1000 analog synth (2 full disks). bass sounds, square wave lead, electronic percussion-type sounds (in a kit). Neil Roland D-50 pads (half a disk) gfd Korg M3r (1 disk; others soon) Bass, lead sound, Acoustic Bass layered with conga (very nice). gfd Korg M3r* drum sounds gfd Korg SG-1D sampled grand (1 disk) sampled by a friend. Very interesting stereo effect makes you seem like you're "inside" the piano. very nice. all Miscelaneous guitar shots, CD player fast forwarding, chordal vocal samples, DX rhodes sound, D. Tycholis Assorted Basses bass-type samples from DX7, Steinberger T. Flemming stabs & effects some stereo, brass, orchestral shots. T. Flemming stabs & synths more stabs, korg synths, synth basses. T. Flemming assorted voices speech clips such as "Hit it!", "This is a Journey into Sound" and others. T. Flemming JB samples Assorted James Brown Owws, Yeahs and other-worldy noises. Includes some groove samples. D. Tycholis MC Hammer Samples of raw instrumentals of "U Can't Touch Dis" including some choice quotes. This package includes a sequence disk for the Mac Sequencer "performer" that strings the samples together for an S-550. W. Fox Money Samples from the beginning of Pink Floyd's song _Money_ and some voices. gfd trumpet samples mellow trumpet sound multi-sample. Sampled in my studio. Also hard attack. ********* new releases!! ************** T. Flemming Alesis HR-16B drum machine (2 disks) (complete). T. Flemming Roland TR808 TR909 drum machines. T. Flemming Ravel Bolero fun pack gfd Roland R8 Rock set gfd Roland R8 Latin set gfd Roland R8 Ethnic set gfd Roland R8 Electronic set gfd Roland R8 Jazz set (with brushes) gfd Roland R8 Power set (monstrous!) gfd Roland R8 Sound Effects set gfd Roland R8 TR707 set gfd Roland R8 Mallet set ============================================================================ *note: all drum sounds are saved by instrument, not by machine. Current drum library consists of: 1 snare disk 1 kick disk 1 Tom disk 1 conga,bonga, timbale disk 2 percussion disks A "best of" disk is forthcoming... **** note 10/10/90 I think that if I get the time, I will archive them both ways since I've had requests. I'll post notification when I finish... **** note 11/2/90 Although I still haven't totally finished with this task, I will accept requests for drum sounds by "machine". Those 16B samples are too juicy to do without! **** note 11/12/90 R8 Jackpot!! -- Can anyone help this guy out? -neil If any of you have any experience with this product, or with a related product made by another manufacturer, please send me info on it. I am relatively new to midi, etc., plus I do not know how to play the piano, so I am primarily interested in knowing if this is a good system for someone who is learning piano to start out with. Also, please include what you think is a reasonable price (I have one quote at $2795). I'd also like to know if there is software available for piano instruction. thanks, --gregbo -- Date: Mon, 12 Nov 90 12:00:56 -0800 >From: pete%WLBR@WLV.IMSD.CONTEL.COM (Pete Lyall) To: nh0n+@andrew.cmu.edu, sgroup+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU Subject: Re: Fwd: Roland W-30 music workstation info sought $2795? Sounds like your dealer should be your ex-dealer. I believe he's quoting you list, which is unheard of in reasonable music stores. Standard discounts run %20-%30. If you can't get him to talk turkey, I can suggest some other sources.. Pete Lyall -- Date: Mon, 12 Nov 90 15:45:18 EST >From: "John M. Sellens" To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: S-330 software, IBM software, archives? I just got an S-330, and so naturally I've got a few questions. I'm new to the list, and so I don't know if this was all talked to death last week, but if so, I hope you'll forgive me. I've got version 1.03 of the S-330 software - anyone know if there's a newer version? I've got an IBM PC with MPU 401. I thought that the Roland RC-100 remote controller looked appealing until I saw the price - I guess I didn't think that $400Cdn for a box and some buttons was worth it. Anyone know of any handy (and cheap) IBM software that would be useful? And finally, are there any archives of sampler related stuff? If not, anyone interested in setting one up, and/or contributing to one? Thanks for any info John Sellens jmsellens@dragon.waterloo.edu -- Date: Tue, 13 Nov 90 17:45:00 PST >From: email_addr@deleted (Mars) To: nh0n+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Wanted S330 I have a S330 and am looking for another one. Do anybody know any place where they can be bought cheaply? What do they go for nowadays? I heard $900 was a resaonable price. email_addr@deleted -- Date: Tue, 13 Nov 90 15:22:15 PST >From: sjs@btr.com (Stephen J. Schow sjs@btr.com) To: nh0n+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: Fwd: Roland W-30 music workstation info sought Does anyone out there know any details about CD-ROMS and S-550's? HOw much for the player, how much for the card? What brands are available...what CD's are available? thanks in advance ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steve Schow | But you don't need to use the claw, if you pick the (415) 366-8778 | pear of the big paw paw....have I given you a clue? (415) 354-4992 | sjs@btr.com | - Baloo the Bear ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Date: Thu, 15 Nov 90 01:27:41 -0500 (EST) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Sgroup Subject: Re: S-330 software, IBM software, archives? John writes: And finally, are there any archives of sampler related stuff? If not, anyone interested in setting one up, and/or contributing to one? So far we have not set up an archive through the nets. A couple of s-groupers were working with sample to mac conversion programs, but no results so far that I know of. Instead, we have a physical library that George Demarest runs, and trading is done by mail. All s-groupers are welcome to use the library but we do ask that you contribute to it as well for the benefit of all. Also, to compensate for the great amount of work George has to do, we do have some general guidlines. I will repost these and the sound list as we have about 5 new members in the last week. neil -- Date: Thu, 15 Nov 90 01:35:41 -0500 (EST) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Sgroup Subject: Re: S-330 software, IBM software, archives? Forgot to answer this question... John Writes: I've got version 1.03 of the S-330 software - anyone know if there's a newer version? The December 1990 Keyboard buyers guide lists the current S330 operating system as 1.03. Looks like you've got the latest neil -- Date: Thu, 15 Nov 90 01:43:36 -0500 (EST) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Sgroup Subject: Re: Roland W-30 music workstation info sought Re: CD-Roms Well Optical Media has two volumes available. Each have a list price of $369. As far as the cost of the disk player itself, I don't have any numbers. I remember at least one sgrouper had the CD-Rom player though, are you out there? neil -- Date: Thu, 15 Nov 90 01:47:53 -0500 (EST) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Sgroup Subject: Latest Keyboard Magazine The december issue of Keyboard is a huge 252 page buyers guide. It's a pretty terrible time for it to come for me, considering I'm broke! They list a good amount of info on S-series third party sounds and ed/libs. I'll get that stuff on line as soon as I can. Also the Roland Users Group Magazine (propagand trash) isn't printing their list of third party manufactures anymore, you have to request it, so I will do that and get it on-line as well. We've got a bunch of new users, welcome to the group guys! neil -- To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Hi there! Date: Wed, 14 Nov 90 23:20:15 PST >From: "Stephen Harrison" I recently joined the list. Here are some details. Name: Stephen Harrison Gear: Korg M3R, Mac IIfx (Vision 1.2, Studio 3 ...) Location: Palo Alto, CA I'm looking to upgrade my master keyboard. Does anyone out there have any experience with the Roland A-50 or A-80? Regards, /Stephen -- Date: 15 Nov 90 11:53:52 >From: Christopher.R.Bingham@mac.dartmouth.edu To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: S-10 samples Greetings. Anyone out there still using an S-10, or know of someone who is? I'm interested in trading samples, info, etc. Thanks! Chris Christopher.R.Bingham@mac.dartmouth.edu -- Date: Thu, 15 Nov 90 11:58:37 -0600 >From: Gary Murakami To: nh0n+@andrew.cmu.edu, sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: Roland W-30 music workstation info sought I have the CD-ROM, with the Roland Sound Library, Vol. 1, and the Optical Media, Vol. 1. I'll have my dealer check into Vol. 2. I forget what the prices were, but I'm sure that I paid dearly since the local dealer here (in Champaign-Urbana, IL) has a monopoly. Whenever I'm in the Tri-state area, I shop at Sam Ash... -Gary -- Date: Thu, 15 Nov 90 10:33:42 PST >From: sjs@btr.com (Stephen J. Schow sjs@btr.com) To: nh0n+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: Latest Keyboard Magazine Anyone know of any manuals or books on the S-550? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steve Schow | But you don't need to use the claw, if you pick the (415) 366-8778 | pear of the big paw paw....have I given you a clue? (415) 354-4992 | sjs@btr.com | - Baloo the Bear ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Date: Thu, 15 Nov 90 13:52:26 -0500 >From: Don Law To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: S-10 samples Christopher.R.Bingham@mac.dartmouth.edu writes: > Greetings. Anyone out there still using an S-10, or know of someone who is? > I'm interested in trading samples, info, etc. Yes - I own the "Chevette" of the Roland S series! I don't have any original samples worth trading now, but here are some of my plans: Some of the Sgroupers are talking about developing a network archive of samples. When that comes to pass (or maybe sooner), I plan to write a utility to take these samples and convert them to a sysex which one of my sequencers can download to the S-10. This is especially useful to us since we can't read the 3.5" disks of the Sgroup library. Capturing samples off the net would give George a little relief as well, not having to mail disks. One possibly interesting sample source I have access to is a Casio CZ-1 (phase distortion synthesis). Maybe when we get this net<->sysex thing off the ground I'll offer some sounds from the CZ-1. --Don Law dlaw@encore.com ...!uunet!gould!dlaw --Ada Development, MS404 --Encore Computer Corporation ***** In the computer lab, ***** --Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33313 ***** No one can hear you scream. ***** Date: Thu, 15 Nov 90 23:34:36 -0500 (EST) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Sgroup Subject: Re: Latest Keyboard Magazine Well the next (Jan) issue of Keyboard is going to have a clinic on the S-550. It's interesting that their doing this so many years after it came out, but I guess their still selling them. (Although their not selling S-50's anymore). neil -- >From: g.f.demarest@mtdca.att.com To: att!andrew.cmu.edu!Sgroup+@mtdca.att.com Date: 19 Nov 1990 10:58 EST Subject: additions to the lib Yo ho! I did a little work over the weekend that may be of interest. I did a little more sampling of M3r drum sounds, and have been doing some Sound Designer II work on some existing drum samples. Collected with the other M3r drums, I've gathered an entire disk's worth of drum samples that are pretty fresh. Also, I've read on the net that people have done some interesting stuff with drum sounds on the Roland D-110 synth. Anyone out there with one of these? They're pretty tempting right now at $299 at Sam Ash, but 'tis the season to be broke, as they say. Anyway, my sample editting was comprised of some use of SD's time expansion/compression, some cutting and pasting and some radical EQ'ing and re-EQ'ing. These sounds will house ya for sure... gfd -- Date: Mon, 19 Nov 90 15:20:31 EST >From: "John M. Sellens" To: nh0n+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: S-330 software, IBM software, archives? | From nh0n+@andrew.cmu.edu Thu Nov 15 01:55:10 1990 | From: Neil Anthony Herzinger | To: Sgroup | Subject: Re: S-330 software, IBM software, archives? | | Forgot to answer this question... | John Writes: | I've got version 1.03 of the S-330 software - anyone know if there's | a newer version? | | The December 1990 Keyboard buyers guide lists the current S330 operating | system as 1.03. Looks like you've got the latest | | neil | Thanks for the info - I haven't got mine yet - the mail is a little slower because it has to line up to cross the bridge to Canada at Detroit or something :-) -- Date: Mon, 19 Nov 1990 14:09-0500 >From: Eric S. Crawley Subject: additions to the lib To: gfd@mtdca.att.com Cc: Sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu I have a Roland D-110 and I have been thinking of what I could contribute to the SGroup library. Perhaps I can supply a disk of the drum sounds. The D-110 is a real steal at $299! I paid a lot more than that for mine ~2 years ago. I think it is a nice unit. It is probably the most used unit in my rack. I probably use it more than my S-330 since it is fast to pull up multi-timbral sounds. I also want to send a disk or two of samples from my old Roland Jupiter-4 synth. (For those who aren't old enough to remember, the JP-4 was one of the first polyphonic synths put out by Roland around '79. It was a good value to have 4 voices, 8 programmable memories, and an appegiator for ~$2K!) The sound of 4 analog oscillators just can't be beat! Anyway, I tried to sample it before but had some difficulty looping the sounds because of all of the beating of the oscillators. Does anyone have any tricks they would like to share in this area? Eric -- Date: Mon, 19 Nov 1990 14:15:41 PST >From: Tycho.ES_AE@xerox.com Subject: Re: additions to the lib To: <@po10.andrew.cmu.edu:nh0n+@andrew.cmu.EDU> Cc: gfd@mtdca.att.com, Sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Eric, Re: "difficulty looping the sounds because of all of the beating of the oscillators." Here's something to try when you're bored: Sample each oscillator's output separately and then combine them in the S-330 somehow at playback time. Anyone know exactly how to layer 4 tones on a single patch? right now (taking a quick break from a paying job), I can only think of one way, but perhaps there are others: 1.) create an interesting analog patch, and write down the detuning for each oscillator. 2.) sample each oscillator, individually, no LFO, tuned as closely as possible to the same pitch (hey I know if it was too close it wouldn't have that analog magic). 3.) Detune each tone up or down the right amount to approximate your favorite patch. 4.) "combine" or "mix" 2 tones into a single tone for patch 1, and the other two tones as patch 2 5.) layer the two patches on the same keys. 6.) If it won't loop, go back to step 3 and try again. It probably won't sound the same as the real thing, but it might be easier to loop since you have a bit more control over the tones. Well, back to work 8-). tycho -- >From: g.f.demarest@mtdca.att.com To: att!andrew.cmu.edu!Sgroup+@mtdca.att.com Date: 19 Nov 1990 16:01 EST Subject: D110 samples > Subject: additions to the lib > > I have a Roland D-110 and I have been thinking of what I could > contribute to the SGroup library. Perhaps I can supply a disk of the > drum sounds. I made a point of sample my M3r sounds with some of the fx intact. A lot of the ambience of those drums sounds depended heavily on the fx. > looping the sounds because of all of the beating of the oscillators. > Does anyone have any tricks they would like to share in this area? This goes for anyone, but don't let the fact that you can't get a perfect loop on your samples keep you from sending them in. Ultimately, if someone is so inspired by the sound you've sent as to want to use it, he/she will worry about the looping. My own approach to looping really only provides me with 2 or 3 effective ways to loop a sample. The most common is to loop a single cycle of the sample at the very end. Of course, that often yields a pretty dull tone, but with some detuning or some LFO added with the right EnvG, they can be usable. The other method is to get a much larger portion of the wave into the loop. This often produces a noticable bump of click in the sound. It is possible to get good results this way, but often, you have to use the inc/dec button quite a bit to page through hundreds of unacceptable loop points. The main thing is to keep the key depressed when you're changing the loop point so you can hear the bad loop sound "resolve itself" when you hit the right one (ahhhh! like panning for gold!). The truth is, there are sounds that are very tough/impossible to loop perfectly. Some sample editting software may give one the option to smooth out some of the rough spots, but is no guarantee of a good loop. For myself, the synth sounds I've sampled so far have been those tht I judged could be successfully looped. Some were better than others. Trying it is the only way. Good luck. gfd -- Date: Tue, 20 Nov 1990 09:32-0500 >From: Eric S. Crawley Subject: D110 samples To: gfd@mtdca.att.com Cc: Sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Date: Mon, 19 Nov 1990 16:01 EST From: gfd@mtdca.att.com From: g.f.demarest@mtdca.att.com > Subject: additions to the lib > > I have a Roland D-110 and I have been thinking of what I could > contribute to the SGroup library. Perhaps I can supply a disk of the > drum sounds. I made a point of sample my M3r sounds with some of the fx intact. A lot of the ambience of those drums sounds depended heavily on the fx. The fx on the D-110 are not much (some simple reverbs and an echo or two) so I won't need to bother with them. Many of the samples have some ambience in them anyway. Thanks for the tips on looping. I'll see what I can get done after the holiday weekend (I won't be in town). -- Date: Tue, 20 Nov 90 14:25:31 GMT >From: "Patrick C.K.Tsang" To: Sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Loop methods >I also want to send a disk or two of samples from my old Roland .... >...Jupitar-4...... The sound of 4 analog oscillators just can't be >beat! Anyway, I tried to sample it before but had some difficulty >looping the sounds because of all of the beating of the oscillators. >Does anyone have any tricks they would like to share in this area? >Eric Yes ! There is a trick to overcome this problem -- something that I learned from re-synthesis methods on a Synclavier. Suppose we have a waveform of length x, we divide it into attack (A), peak (B), initial decay level (C), and sustain level (D), it's amplitude display on a sampler's screen would look like this : Amplitude ^ | ~ | ~~~~ | ~~~~~~~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ |---------------------------------------- | ~~~~~~~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ | ~~~~ | ~ | |---------------------------------------> Time (A)(B) (C) (M) (D) <----------x------------> Obviously we cannot perform loops between points A to C as both the amplitude and harmonic content are changing greatly. We only work out a loop for the section C-D. So this is what you do: 1) Note down the positions of points C and D. 2) Extract C-D. So you now have two samples: A-B-C and C-D. 3) Make an exact copy of C-D but IN REVERSE !!! So now you have a new sample D-C, too. 4) Use the 'MIX' function to combine the samples C-D and D-C, but using half (50%) amplitude for each one, so that the sum would not exceed the original amplitude. 5) So now you have a sample that is geometically balanced at the exact middle point M = (C+D)/2. Listen to it. 6) If you are unlucky you will hear a lot of phasing out and you have to choose a different set of points for C and D, and do it again. Otherwise you should notice a consistent sound. 7) Choose a point between C and the middle point M where you wish your loop to begin, set this to be loop start L. Set the point exact distance away from M on the other side as loop end E: C---L----------M----------E---D i.e. (M-L) = (E-M) => E = 2M - L => E = D - L In simple English, the loop start L is as far away from origin C as the end point E is away from D. Work it out yourself. So now you should have a perfectly geometrical loop L-E. 8) Stick the sample A-B-C and C-L-M-E-D togetehr again. Voila ! Now you have a loop ! Patrick. Freelance Synclavier Op. -- Date: Tue, 20 Nov 90 11:34:19 -0500 (EST) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Sgroup Subject: Re: Loop methods RE: Patricks sampling method Wow, that sounds like a great method for sampling, a lot of work but worth it. I'm going to try that when I get some time. neil -- Date: Tue, 20 Nov 90 16:04:32 -0500 (EST) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Sgroup Subject: Third Party Software List The following is a list of sounds and editor librarians for the S-series samplers. There is a separate section at the end for the S10. This info was gathered from Keyboard magazine's buyers guide and their classified ads. If anyone has anything to add, or comments about certain companies, please send them to me and I'll add them in. CL: -means classified ad follows ** -means my own comments S50/550/330/W30 Sounds: >Club 50: over 100 disks available, $20 each 25226 234th Ave. SE Maple Valley, WA 98038 (206) 432-1390 USA >Eye & I: Voice Crystal 1-25, 3 voices on each disk, $15 each 2151 Old Oakland Rd. #224 San Jose, CA 95131 USA (408) 945-0139 >Glove Productions: S50/550/W30 disks, $20 to $35 per disk **I have their 1989 catalog and demo disk if anyone is interested** Box 11168 Eugene, OR 97404-3368 USA >i.s.m. Free thousand disk catalog CL: Huge Library, ism has over a thousand disk library for Roland S-50/550/330/770/W30 includes not only real acoustic instruments, but also old & new synthesizers (Moog,PPg SY77, T!, D-70, and more) and powerfuls SE's. Digidesign Sound Designer formatted. Write/Fax for free 'thousand disk catalog': i.s.m. PO Box 179 Sapporo Chuo 060 Japan FAX 81118238627 >MIDI Mark: 4 disks, $10 each, whole set, $35, free sound list CL: New S-series Funky set 2 - TR 909, TR 808, and Beats. 4 disks $35.00 plus $3 s/h. Demo tapes $5. Funk, House, Acid, Rap. Samples from the industry. MIDI Mark Productions PO Box 217 Whittier, CA 90608 USA >MIDIMouse: 19 disks, $24.95 each Box 877 Welches, OR 97067 USA (503) 622-4034 >Navarrophonic: 70 disks, prices range from 3 disks for $30 to complete 70 disk library for $600 CL: Sample Libraries for S-series. Demo cassette $6. Information/catalog: (301) 750-3813 COD orders only:(800) 666-5563 Ken Navarro/Navarrophonic Productions PO Box 1521 Columbia, MD 21044 USA >Northstar: 44 disks, 8 presets per disk, $15 each 13716 SE Ramona Portland, OR 97236 USA (503) 760-7777 >Optical Media: CD-ROMS: Vol1, $369; Vol 2 Outrigger Productions Gold, $369. 485 Alberto Way Los Gatos, CA 95032 USA (408) 395-4332 >Outrigger: 200 disks, $20 per disk (discounts for bulk orders) CL: Roland S/W series disks. The best roland sampler disk library available. New CD-ROM by Optical Media. New DAT/PCM/CASSETTE sound libraries for sale. For catalog Write/Fax Sandy Simpson Outrigger Productions PO Box 2719 Agana, Guam 96910 FAX (011) 671-734-5459 >Patchman Music: Elite Series sampler disks, 53 disk catalog, quantity pricing. 2043 Mars Ave. Lakewood, OH 44107 USA (216) 221-8887 >Prosonus: ProDisk digital sampled sounds & FX on preformatted floppy disks, 15+ sets, $49.95 each. 1616 Vista del Mar Los Angeles, CA 90028. USA (213) 463-6191 >Roland: 160 disks, check w/ dealer for availability 7200 Dominion Circle Los Angeles, CA 90040 USA (213) 685-5141 FAX: (213) 722-0911 >Sacks Music: S-50/550 sounds, demo disk $10, brochure $1 1636 Cahuenga Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90028 USA >Uberschall: $15 per disk, 10 disk set, $120; demo cassette and sound list $8 Dieckbornstr. 5 3000 Hanover 91 Germany 011-49-511-455410 They left these out (found in classifieds): >USB: Universal sound bank, world's largest bank for Roland, Yamaha, and Akai samplers (over 500 original disks). Please write to: USB / Studio JBF 23 rue Poissonniere 75002 Paris, France >Techno Industrial Samples for S-series. Machine sounds, heavy percussion, techno-bass, killer synths, cyber-FX on 5 disks. $45 John Zambrano 2060 Emery Ave, Suite #205 LaHabra, CA 90631 USA >Great S-50 samples. D-50 sound set: 64 great D-50 sounds on 10 disks for $69.95 MIDI Textures: We layered today's 9 top synths. 6 disks for $64.95. Order today or send $8 for demo and sound list. S10 sounds available (**see next section**) VISA/Mastercard PSL Productions PO Box 602 Stn. K Montreal QC Canada H1N 3R2 (514) 256-7936 **I have the D-50 sound set and am quite happy with it. I also have the demo disk and cassette. The disk is in the users library. I will gladly dub the demo tape for any who want to hear it but it is quite bad (not the sounds, but the production)** S50/550/330/W30 Editor Librarians: >Digidesign: Sound Designer II SK for Mac, $349; Sound Designer Universal for Atari, $349 Turbosynth modular synthesis/sample processing software for Mac & Atari, $349. 1360 Willow Rd., #101 Menlo Park, CA 94025 USA (415) 327-0777 >Interval Music: GenWave waveform editor/translator for Atari $349 12335 Santa Monica Blvd, #244 (12077 Wilshire Blvd, #515) Los Angeles, CA 90025 USA (213) 478-5791 >Passport: alchemy sample editing & sound designer W/ lib. for Mac, $695. Sound Apprentice sample editing & sound designer, w/lib. for Mac $295 625 Miramontes Half Moon Bay, CA 94019 USA (415) 726-0280 FAX: (415) 726-2254 >Turtle Beach: SampleVision sample editing software for IBM, $349 Box 5074 York, PA 17405 USA (717) 843-6916 FAX: (717) 854-8319 S10 Sounds: >PSL: 10 disk set of layered synth textures, $85, $59.95 if disks supplied; 20 disk D-50 sound set, $133, $69.95 if disks supplied; demo cassette & sound list $8 PSL Productions PO Box 602 Stn. K Montreal QC Canada H1N 3R2 (514) 256-7936 >Roland: 11 sample vol, check w/ dealer for availability 7200 Dominion Circle Los Angeles, CA 90040 USA (213) 685-5141 FAX: (213) 722-0911 S10 Editor/Librarians: >Turtle Beach: SampleVision sample editing software for IBM, $349 Box 5074 York, PA 17405 USA (717) 843-6916 FAX: (717) 854-8319 -- >From: g.f.demarest@mtdca.att.com To: att!andrew.cmu.edu!Sgroup+@mtdca.att.com Cc: email_addr@deleted Date: 20 Nov 1990 9:29 EST Subject: Sound Designer II (SD II) > To: gfd@mtdca.att.com > Subject: Sound designer II > > What is this?? Software for editing samples?? If that is the case please > tell me more about it, it sounds real interesting. > > email_addr@deleted I'm not sure I ever really gave any info on SD II, so here's a quick look: SD II is a revision of Digidesign's Sound Designer program which is basically a sample editting program giving you many tools for fooling with samples. Besides the normal cut/copy/paste/clear operations, you can fade in, fade out, reverse, normalize samples to your hearts content. Samples are communicated to the sampler via midi (sample dump, I guess). SD supports most popular samplers, including all the Roland samplers. Now, SD II is integrated into a package called Sound Tools (ST). It was revised to handle features for hard-disk recording. Along with this is the Sound Accelerator board (SA) that plays back sound files using on board DtoA converters. Thus, with SA, not only can you edit samples, you can hear them as you edit (which is extremely powerful). Newer features include 10 band graphic EQ (with each band sweepable and with a seperate bandwith control (which really means 10 band Parametric EQ, really)), compression/expansion/gate, time compression/expansion, fft display of wave data (not real time), parametric EQ, pitch shifting and some others. When I edit samples, the first thing I do is "normalize" them. This basically scales the sample such that the highest amplitude is set to the maximum value allowed (FFF I guess). This makes the sample louder (much louder in some cases) and improves signal/noise ratio. I'll then clip away any leading delay or trailing noise, or if the noise isn't easily clippable (for instance if it is too integrated into the decay of the sound) I will do a fade on the end of the sample so that it ends in silence (pretty handy). I then will go the the graphic EQ. I've been dong mostly drum sounds, so usually, I will make the sound brighter and, if appropriate, deeper. Some sounds need little help, others need a lot. Anyway, after I get the sound where I want it, I save it to the hard disk and then send it back down to the sampler to see how it sounds (sometimes there is a difference in how they sound from the sampler than from the SA). There are tons of other features for the hard disk recording stuff, but they aren't really related, so I'll end here. The system isn't cheap, and you need a Mac SE 30 or a Mac II to really make it work. But it is fabulous to use. It certainly reconciles my debt :-) gfd -- >From: Thomas Flemming Date: Thu, 22 Nov 1990 19:23:50 +0100 To: alasnik@casbah.acns.nwu.edu Cc: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: requested info... Adamsnik, I had to sell my synth (it was just a D-20) to afford my W-30 sampler, and haven't been sorry for it. In fact the W-30 sounds twice as fat with some good analog samples with the rigth tone parameters as the old digital synth. Here's a suggested filter setting that sets the resonance almost at peak ,and gives approx. maximum effect out of the filter circuits. The L.Curve adjust the level of sensitivity, it's often best to just turn it off. Afterwards you just mess around with the envelope till it sounds rigth. When using a sequencer you vary the velocity to get the changing deep and high analog feel. It's a pity the W-30 doesn`t have portamento as well, it's about all that's missing. Offcourse theire are other drawbacks with the machine as lack of sys.ex.-dumping of samples and no memory add on's, but you can make the best out of the equipment you have. Thomas Flemming ,Winterland 22.11.1990 TVF Switch ON L.Curve 2 Cut-off 0 EG Depth 127 Resonance 90 EG Pol. + Key Follow 63 Key-rate 0 LFO Depth 0 Vel-rate 0 Rate 90 73 90 127 127 Level 127 127 0 0 0 Sus 2 End 3 ~/Ifi-mail/sample-skakke 8 -- Date: Tue, 27 Nov 90 14:10:50 PST >From: email_addr@deleted (M C ) To: nh0n+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: S330 Are the S330 discontinued or what? Tried to buy another one but the dude in store said the no longer carried them. What's the deal??? email_addr@deleted -- >From: Thomas Flemming Date: Mon, 3 Dec 1990 18:06:46 +0100 To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: filter settings again Here's a suggested filter setting that sets the resonance almost at peak ,and gives almost maximum effect out of the filter circuits. It's often best to just turn off the L.Curve when adjusting the envelope. When using a sequencer you can vary the velocity to get the changing filter effect like the knob twisting on analog synths. It's a pity the W-30 doesn't have portamento as well, it's about all that's missing. Offcourse a sampler will never sound like an analog synth, but you migth as well make the best out of the equipment you have. Thomas Flemming ,winterland 3.12.90 TVF Switch ON L.Curve 1 Cut-off 0 EG Depth 127 Resonance 90 EG Pol. + Key Follow 63 Key-rate 0 LFO Depth 0 Vel-rate 0 Rate 90 73 90 127 127 Level 127 127 0 0 0 Sus 2 End 3