From mailbox.syr.edu!naherzin Sat Oct 31 21:18:06 1992 Received: from mailbox.syr.edu ([128.230.18.5]) by watdragon.uwaterloo.ca with SMTP id <168416-2>; Sat, 31 Oct 1992 21:18:05 -0500 Received: from rodan.acs.syr.edu by mailbox.syr.edu (4.1/CNS) id AA10653; Sat, 31 Oct 92 21:17:26 EST Received: by rodan.acs.syr.edu (4.1/Spike-2.0) id AA02958; Sat, 31 Oct 92 21:12:30 EST Message-Id: <9211010212.AA02958@rodan.acs.syr.edu> To: jmsellen@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca Subject: 1990 October Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1992 21:12:29 -0500 From: "neil herzinger" Status: R Date: Tue, 2 Oct 90 20:38:34 -0400 (EDT) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Sgroup Subject: All's quiet... The s-group has been fairly quiet recently, so I thought I would make a post. I still need to get info from some subscribers. If you haven't yet, please send me your name/instrument (S50, 550, etc...)/and a geographic location. neil -- >From: DTycholis.LAX1B@xerox.com Subject: Re: Samples via e-mail. (R/W Roland disk on the Mac) To: ESC@riverside.scrc.symbolics.COM Cc: DTycholis.LAX1B@xerox.com, dlaw@encore.COM, sgroup+@andrew.cmu.EDU True, there's no way to initiate the tone/patch dump from the S-550. The idea of embedding the sysex bytes (almost sounds sexy doesn't it) seems feasible. I might try it, just as soon as I bail out the swamp under my house....8-). \{10/3: course, now that it's all fixed, I'll have to find some ohter excuse not to get around to it :-)\ Actually, there is some handshaking involved in the DT1 protocol (256 byte fragments), so it probably won't get you more than just the first 256 byte chunk of a tone. There is a faster, large transfer protocol (DTR?) which I haven't figured out yet that *might* work when sent by a sequencer, but then we get into the "over-running of the sequencer" problem you mentioned. Still, it's a thought....if only I had a rack-mounted phase-correcting Time Wrinkler(TM) so I could retreat into my computer lab/studio/closet for a few days, and emerge triumphantly with my latest gift to mankind, 2 minutes later 8-). It seems like we need a S-Series Sample Librarian program (no, relax, we aren't looking to replace you, george). Anyone know of such a product? Does Sound Designer or Alchemy Jr. (what's it really called?) provide this function? Don -- Date: Wed, 3 Oct 1990 14:34:48 PDT >From: Donald_C._Tycholis.LAX1B@xerox.com Subject: Re: All's quiet... To: nh0n+@andrew.cmu.EDU Cc: Donald_C._Tycholis.LAX1B@xerox.com, sgroup+@andrew.cmu.EDU Hi all, I'm back on the air....hopefully.... WARNING: I'll be sending out some messages which bounced when someone pulled the plug, and are now quite old, but they *are* already written, so I'm sending them anyway! ---------- Here's my gear list: Don Tycholis S-550 DX-7 TX81Z RX-5 MT2X (4track) Mac Plus misc. studio gear several acoustic/electric guitars Westminster, California (in Orange County, near Huntington Beach, dude...) Cheers, Don Tycholis ---------- DTycholis.LAX1B@Xerox.Com -- Date: Wed, 3 Oct 1990 14:36:37 PDT >From: DTycholis.LAX1B@xerox.com Subject: Re: your disks To: gfd@mtdca.att.COM Cc: DTycholis.LAX1B@xerox.com, sgroup+@andrew.cmu.EDU george, Glad you liked the bass sounds which I sent to the S-group library....hope others will enjoy them too. Sorry about the M.C. Hammer samples but you did ask for them ;-) You can well imagine how sick of M.C. Hammer *I* am after spending over 4 nights (till 4 AM on the last night) sequencing and tweaking that @#$%"&* 45 minute long tape over and over!!! Interestingly, at around 20-25 minutes, Performer 3.x starts acting very strangely, like not playing notes at all if you "fast forward" into the end of the sequence, and eventually giving it up all together. I had to restart the sequence to get 45 minutes worth. Can you elaborate a bit on what you meant by "putting notes back to back as you had them in memory"? I did this disk over a year ago, and without some prodding, I can't remember how I set it up or why. If there is a more conventional way to organize the samples or notes, I'd like to do it differently next time. I managed to locate the slab leak under my house and get it fixed, so I got in a few hours sampling 5ths on my Charvel. That disk is about 3/4ths done...sigh, it is really taking much more time than anticipated to get even, realistic samples; the problem is with the unreliable nature of the analog sounce source (my fingers and picking hand 8-). Hopefully it will be finished up in the next couple of weeks. Regards, Don -- Date: Wed, 3 Oct 1990 14:41:14 PDT >From: DTycholis.LAX1B@xerox.com Subject: Re: New guitar samples To: nh0n+@andrew.cmu.EDU Cc: Donald_C._Tycholis.LAX1B@xerox.com, sgroup+@andrew.cmu.EDU -->You'd probably have to have your chords/notes in mind ahead of time, -->since you can't map in the conventional 12 tone octave. It might add -->alot for realism. right...I don't have a problem with this, but I'm not a *real* keyboard player. What say the rest who are? -->You might want to set up a velocity cross fade between a light strum -->and a heavy chunk. Tried this too, but the problem is that the transition seems too abrupt for my taste. Flip side: switching between two samples which are too similar results in a transition which is TOO subtle, especially with el distorto guitar, and buried in a mix. Maybe I'm being too picky. So whadayathink: given a choice, subtle or abrupt? ( yeah perfect would be nice but I haven't picked up the Time Wrinkler (TM) yet 8-). Also, I don't want to be shipping poor George a package of 50 disks for the Ultimate Guitar Collection! I might cop out by just sampling several variations on a few common "guitar chords". E, F, G, A, in 1st position and A,B, C, D in 2nd are the most popular; good enough? Regards, Don -- Date: Wed, 3 Oct 90 23:56:42 -0400 (EDT) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Sgroup Subject: Emergency I've been working on the score of a video that is going into final production on friday. One of my most important sound disks just crashed on me. I need a copy of 'Reverb Sets', it is a factory disk. If anyone is willing to run off a copy for me a send it in the mail ASAP, I would appreciate it. I know I can't get it by friday, but the soonest after, the better. Just drop me a note if you can help, thanks. neil -- >From: g.f.demarest@mtdca.att.com To: att!andrew.cmu.edu!Sgroup+@mtdca.att.com Date: 4 Oct 1990 9:43 EDT Subject: guitar samples... > Tried this too, but the problem is that the transition seems too abrupt for my > taste. Flip side: switching between two samples which are too similar results > in a transition which is TOO subtle, especially with el distorto guitar, and > buried in a mix. Maybe I'm being too picky. Make sure that the switch threshold is fairly high, so that the "soft" sample will get a good deal louder before the other kicks in. It gives more of the illusion of smoothness... >So whadayathink: given a choice, subtle or abrupt? ( yeah perfect would be nice > but I haven't picked up the Time Wrinkler (TM) yet 8-). Also, I don't want to > be shipping poor George a package of 50 disks for the Ultimate Guitar > Collection! People still use guitars??? > I might cop out by just sampling several variations on a few common "guitar > chords". E, F, G, A, in 1st position and A,B, C, D in 2nd are the most > popular; good enough? NO! :-) -- >From: gfd@mtdca.att.com Date: Thu, 4 Oct 90 09:37 EDT To: att!andrew.cmu.edu!Sgroup+@mtdca.att.com Subject: Re: Samples via e-mail. (R/W Roland disk on the Mac) >It seems like we need a S-Series Sample Librarian program (no, relax, we aren't > looking to replace you, george). Anyone know of such a product? Does Sound ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Wasn't it a famous philosopher that said: "Go ahead, make my day..." ? gfd -- Date: Thu, 4 Oct 90 12:09:17 -0500 >From: "Derek A. Taubert" To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Initializing disks Well, I don't have anything interesting to swap with some of the people on this group, but if I ever do... All I have right now is a W-30. Can a 550 or 330 read a disk initialized on a W-30? From what I understand (page 41 W-30 manual) they can't. So what to do? S-Group rule #2 doesn't work for me. -- >From: Thomas Flemming Date: Thu, 4 Oct 1990 21:11:34 +0100 To: dat33228@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Cc: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: Initializing disks Derek, to swap disks with the rest of the world you first have to get an original S-50 disk, and use FD-copy to format S-50 disks. Thats what I do! It takes quite a while to 'format' one disk but it's the only way. A faster way could be if you use a home computer (not mac plus) to copy the original S-50 disk. Sometimes it works if you have a good disk-duplicate program. Welcome to the group. Thomas Flemming -- Date: Fri, 5 Oct 90 01:54:20 -0400 (EDT) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Sgroup Subject: Re: guitar samples... It sounds like you might have to comprimise. I would go with George's suggestion on the crossfade. If I were hand playing a sound like that, my accents would probably be really hard, and the rest fairly soft. In other words, the suggested set up would fit my more natural playing style. The chords might have to do. Chords are always kind of difficult to use though, especially when you transpose more than a few notes from the source. neil -- Date: Fri, 5 Oct 90 02:03:19 -0400 (EDT) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Sgroup Subject: Rescue Well thanks to Peter Delevoryas out in Californialand, I now have a copy of the disk I need speeding through the mail to me. I appreciate the responces I got from you guys, it seems I have been saved. Viva La S-Group! neil -- Date: Fri, 5 Oct 90 09:49:48 PDT >From: sjs@btr.com (Stephen J. Schow sjs@btr.com) To: dat33228@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu, thomasfl@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: Initializing disks Cc: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu A faster way could be if you use a home computer (not mac plus) to copy the original S-50 disk. Sometimes it works if you have a good disk-duplicate IF not a Mac plus then what....are saying that some computers will read an S-550 formatted disk. Is that PC's or some macs, or what. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steve Schow | But you don't need to use the claw, if you pick the (415) 366-8778 | pear of the big paw paw....have I given you a clue? (415) 354-4992 | sjs@btr.com | - Baloo the Bear ---------------------------- -- Date: Fri, 5 Oct 1990 17:43:26 PDT >From: Donald_C._Tycholis.LAX1B@xerox.com Subject: Roland Samplers and Floppy Disk Woes.... To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.EDU Is anyone out there having a problem with their Roland sampler reading floppy disks? Just a few months ago, one disk "went bad" on tracks 0-5. A few weeks ago, a second one died on tracks 0-2. Since both of these are old disks (had them for a few years though not loaded very often), I just shrugged. Now one of the * new * disks I just got from george, recently formatted by me on my machine, has a bad track 0. I've tried to read them at least 4 times, and each load automatically tries 3 times, so 12 tries each. No luck. Other disks read OK. Any suggestions on what's going on, what to try/check out? Thanks, Don -- Subject: Re: Roland Samplers and Floppy Disk Woes.... To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu (Roland Support Group) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 90 19:09:36 PDT >From: todd@ivucsb.sba.ca.us (Todd Day) %Is anyone out there having a problem with their Roland sampler reading floppy %disks? I have the same problem from time to time with my S50. Can't wait to get a SCSI card so I won't have to worry about it anymore... Todd Day | todd@ivucsb.sba.ca.us | ucsbcsl!ivucsb!todd It's not a matter of winning or losing... It's how much tread you scrub off your tires! -- To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: Roland Samplers and Floppy Disk Woes.... Date: 6 Oct 90 01:08:40 EDT (Sat) >From: david!david@cis.ohio-state.edu (David A. Roth) >Date: Fri, 5 Oct 1990 17:43:26 PDT >From: Donald_C._Tycholis.LAX1B@xerox.com >Subject: Roland Samplers and Floppy Disk Woes.... >To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu >Message-Id: <" 5-Oct-90 17:43:26 PDT".*.Donald_C._Tycholis.LAX1B@Xerox.com> > > >Is anyone out there having a problem with their Roland sampler reading floppy >disks? Just a few months ago, one disk "went bad" on tracks 0-5. A few weeks >ago, a second one died on tracks 0-2. > >Since both of these are old disks (had them for a few years though not loaded >very often), I just shrugged. Now one of the * new * disks I just got from >george, recently formatted by me on my machine, has a bad track 0. >I've tried to read them at least 4 times, and each load automatically tries 3 >times, so 12 tries each. No luck. > >Other disks read OK. > >Any suggestions on what's going on, what to try/check out? > >Thanks, >Don > Although I have not had this kind of problem with my S-330 I was wondering if anyone uses a disk cleaner on the drives for their samples? Like the kind sold at Radio Shack? Is this a good idea to clean them this way? Don, Perhaps your drive needs cleaning(?) David -- Date: Sat, 6 Oct 90 02:13:18 -0400 (EDT) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Sgroup Subject: Re: Roland Samplers and Floppy Disk Woes.... That same thing has happened to me a number of times. In fact, it's exactly what happened to me 'Reverb Sets' disk, track 25 just all of a sudden decided to go bad. The problem has occured about 7 or 8 times with my sampler. I can't say it's ever happened to a disk that is 2 years old, but usually to somewhat new disks (4 to 6 months, or much younger). Unfortunatly I have no solutions to the problem, nor do I have any idea what may cause the problem.... neil -- Subject: S50 <--> IBMPC converter program To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu (Roland Support Group) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 90 12:04:15 PDT >From: todd@ivucsb.sba.ca.us (Todd Day) Okay, I'm back from vacationing, back from rallying, most of my stuff is moved into my new place, and my job is finally getting under control... It's time to start up work on the S50 disk converter program. I want your ideas... what kind of conversion are you going to need? Do you want to be able to do both patch sets (the patch plus all of it's associated sounds)? Whole disks? Individual sounds? I could make an archiver out of it, too. It'd be able to dump all the title info about your disk and all of the patches and sounds on it into a generic ASCII file so you could put it into some database program on your PC. I'm going to make it work on my UNIXPC first, and then I'll take it to work and port it using TurboC on a IBMPC type machine. So tell me, what do you want to be able to do with it? BTW, the reason I'm doing this is that I want to be able to take the file dump, convert it to some uuencoded format, and then send the samples via email. That reminds me... I want to come up with some format other than uuencode that will take advantage of lower case characters... any know of any caveats vis a vi sending ASCII over the net? Todd Day | todd@ivucsb.sba.ca.us | ucsbcsl!ivucsb!todd It's not a matter of winning or losing... It's how much tread you scrub off your tires! -- >From: paul@ATHENA.MIT.EDU Date: Sat, 6 Oct 90 14:33:05 -0400 To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: Roland Samplers and Floppy Disk Woes.... The same happened to me with several disks, most of them two years old, most of them my most heavily-used disks. I bought a $5 head cleaner, used it, and used Load Patch and Load Tone to stubbornly read the missing data off the bad tracks. I was able to read all data from the half dozen bad disks. I then reformatted the disks and rewrote the data onto them, which solved the problem short-term until I could steal some more floppies from work and copy the questionable disks onto them. Since using the cleaning disks, I have not had this problem. I posted this to rec.music.something last year and was told that 1) You should never clean a disk drive ever, and it was nmy fault for not keeping a pristine environment 2) cleaning disks are bad for your disk drive, and only people who really know what they're doing can clean the disk by dissembling it. I chose to disbelieve both replies. I have used my disk drive quite extensively since then with no problems. Incidentally, I just received some wild Norwegian sample disks (Thank you Mr Flemming!) and used the belligerent-reread technique to get the sounds off a couple of travel-damaged sectors. -Paul -- Date: Sun, 7 Oct 90 01:07:21 -0400 (EDT) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Sgroup Subject: Re: Roland Samplers and Floppy Disk Woes.... I have tried all read or reread techniques to get bad data of injured disks, but it hasn't worked. Are you saying it only worked in conjunction with disk cleaning? If so, that would make more sense to me. neil -- >From: Thomas Flemming Date: Mon, 8 Oct 1990 17:56:37 +0100 To: todd@ivucsb.sba.ca.us Cc: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: S50 <--> IBMPC converter program I know what I want: a conversion program for S900 and S50 disks. Technicaly it's possible to convert samples from all samplers (except S10 and Akai X7000 with microfloppy-drive). So we could convert sample-library from S-1000 to S-770 and Ensoniq Mirage and S950 to S50. All without having to borrow another Akai-sampler and going by MIDI. This kind of program could also have some comercial value. But for starters it would be convinient just to have some machine independent source-code in C. And limit it to S50 disks and normal data disks. I haven't had time to work on this yet, but I'll be glad to assist in the programming of such programs. Thomas Flemming -- Date: Mon, 8 Oct 1990 18:48:09 PDT >From: Donald_C._Tycholis.LAX1B@xerox.com Subject: Re: Roland Samplers and Floppy Disk Woes.... To: paul@athena.mit.EDU Cc: Donald_C._Tycholis.LAX1B@xerox.com, sgroup+@andrew.cmu.EDU Well, guess I'll try a floppy disk cleaner this weekend, and see if it helps recover the disks. I had waffled on this earlier, since the errors are "solid" and repeatable only on specific disks. A dirty head *should * give semi-random errors, or errors on most all the disks, no? But it can't hurt to clean them, right (uh oh, here come the flames!?)...WARNING: hit "next" if you don't want to hear my opinion on head cleaning! I too have heard all the arguments pro and con. Yes, it probably is best to go the "professional cleaning approach" which is to disassemble the gear, get in to the disk head directly, swab it gently with head cleaning fluid and a cotton Q-tip, etc. ( If it is interesting to anyone, I was once a professional disk head cleaner, for Control Data Corporation Customer Engineering: factory trained on CDC Model 844 and 819 HD's.) "Doing it right" works, if you know what you're doing. It's also a pain, usually. So, most people would probably rather take their chances on the head cleaning kit than to risk doing some real ugly damage by opening up and digging into their expensive toys with metal tools; this is a perfectly rational decision, one that I've made several times :-) The head cleaning kits (the wet kind) have worked for me on several types of systems without any adverse effects. So maybe both sides are right? IMHO, the key is to use a "quality kit" (i.e. not abrasive), make sure the floppy-cleaning material is wet enough, and stop cleaning before the material gets dry. If a light wet cleaning won't do it, you've got a scratched or marred head surface which requires "burnishing" with a special polishing material, and you've got to pull the head out of the drive to do this. On the el-cheapo floppy drives we use today, this means trash-can the drive and go buy a new one. Thanks for the prod, and thanks for the "Load Patch and Load Tone- RIP the face off the floppy" read tip. I'll give it a go with the cleaner. If that doesn't work, I'll "do it right` :-)... Don -- Subject: Re: Roland Samplers and Floppy Disk Woes.... To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu (Roland Support Group) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 90 0:15:28 PDT >From: todd@ivucsb.sba.ca.us (Todd Day) There's too many people here who have the same symptoms of floppy disk failure on these samplers. This is more than a coincidence. I'll bet that Roland has messed up here on the read or write electronics. I've been using these same types of "flippy" disks and "flippy" drives at work on several IBMPC type clones and have never had a problem with disk errors. In fact, I've even recovered a few of these sample disks by taking them to work and doing raw sector reads and writes on the IBMPCs (come to think of it, I could have just used DISKCOPY and saved myself some coding). Todd Day | todd@ivucsb.sba.ca.us | ucsbcsl!ivucsb!todd It's not a matter of winning or losing... It's how much tread you scrub off your tires! -- Subject: S-330 and things learned from disk dump To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu (Roland Support Group) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 90 22:33:24 PDT >From: todd@ivucsb.sba.ca.us (Todd Day) Someone sent me a disk dump of the S-330 format. I examined it tonight and found a few interesting things. It appears from the system code that the S-330 can read and write S-50 disks. It also appears that it has a mouse and one can enter some "Hacker Mode". The S-330 is a twelve bit sampler with 16 bit output. Any of the above true? Anyway, the directory format and data format are VERY similar to the S-50 format. However, they have different offsets (does the S-330 use those damned 2.5" disks?). So, it seems that A) there won't be any problem just reading and writing S-50 disks, so why bother doing a port to the S-330. B) if I do decide to port, it won't be all that hard, anyway. I think what I'll do is write the code in such a manner as to make offsets variable and therefore easily changed for the S-330. I'm tempted to do just A, because that way we won't have a proliferation of different formats. However, I'm concerned that there might be something in the S-330 and S-550 that will get lost in the translation to the S-50. Can anyone confirm this? Todd Day | todd@ivucsb.sba.ca.us | ucsbcsl!ivucsb!todd It's not a matter of winning or losing... It's how much tread you scrub off your tires! -- >From: g.f.demarest@mtdca.att.com To: att!andrew.cmu.edu!Sgroup+@mtdca.att.com Date: 11 Oct 1990 9:30 EDT Subject: S-330 format > Someone sent me a disk dump of the S-330 format. I examined > it tonight and found a few interesting things. > > It appears from the system code that the S-330 can read and > write S-50 disks. Yes, the actual code to do so resides on the S-330 utilities disk. > It also appears that it has a mouse and one can enter some > "Hacker Mode". This has been discussed. I've never seen it, but rumor has it that it exists. > The S-330 is a twelve bit sampler with 16 bit output. I've never been too sure, but that sounds right. I've seen literature calling it both 12-bit and 16-bit, so your description sounds like it has merit. > Any of the above true? You're doing well so far, dude. > Anyway, the directory format and data format are VERY similar > to the S-50 format. However, they have different offsets > (does the S-330 use those damned 2.5" disks?). So, it seems > that > A) there won't be any problem just reading and > writing S-50 disks, so why bother doing a > port to the S-330. > B) if I do decide to port, it won't be all that > hard, anyway. I think what I'll do is write > the code in such a manner as to make offsets > variable and therefore easily changed for > the S-330. > > I'm tempted to do just A, because that way we won't have > a proliferation of different formats. However, I'm concerned > that there might be something in the S-330 and S-550 that > will get lost in the translation to the S-50. Can anyone > confirm this? The S-330 has additional filtering data that the S-50 doesn't have. This might make up for the difference in offsets. Also, the S-330 has 8 more available patch memories per disk. This would correspond to additional patch parameters, splits, etc. The S-550 is similar thought there may be some differences. gfd -- >From: Thomas Flemming Date: Thu, 11 Oct 1990 19:55:18 +0100 To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu (Roland Support Group) Subject: Flemming's lib. list Here's my updatet list of self-sampled disks: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Stabs & Synths 1: Stereo orchestral hits and effects,synths. Taken from CD's and other various sources. Stabs & Synths 2: Mono hits, stabs & analog Korg synths. These are not presets! Percussion Library: Assorted 909 and 808 with dope bass, funky drummer loop and other percussive sounds. Bolero: Do it yourself kit. Ravel's Bolero loop'ed and other orchestral samples. James Brown: I haven't sampled this myself. Contains the usual sex machine quotes, and the oooh and yeah often used as percussion. Vocal samples: A selection of old vocal samples like this is journey into... and keep this frequence clear. Mainly taken from records. Alesis 16B 1: Tones 1-30 from the drum-machine, all the snares ,bassdrums and toms. Alesis 16B 2: Tones 31-47, long cymbal-samples and the most unusal sounds. Also some extra samples to fill up the disk. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Since I have a W-30, I can handle all formats. If you're not living in europe, then you can send your request to George. I'm always interested in swapping disk with interesting sounds. Thomas Flemming Gydasvei 74 . . 1413 TARNASEN NORWAY -- Date: Thu, 11 Oct 90 16:34:30 -0400 (EDT) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Sgroup Subject: Re: S-330 and things learned from disk dump There is a program to convert 550/330 disks to S50 (in case you didn't know). I don't know how it handels the info that the S50 doesn't support though. As far as the patches are concerned, it lets you save 11-18 on one disk and 21- 28 on another. neil -- Date: Thu, 11 Oct 90 19:32:56 BST >From: "Patrick C.K.Tsang" To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Port S-330 This is my first posting in this group: For as long as I can remember the problem of porting S-330 <-> S-50 has been going on from day one of my subscription. Let me ask one question : Who hasn't got the S-330 systems utility disk ? Unless Roland sell S-330 differently in the USA we should all have a copy of it with the machine and therefore have no problem transferring 3.5 inch disks to/from any of the S-samplers. So, please explain the problem. Patrick. -- >From: g.f.demarest@mtdca.att.com To: att!andrew.cmu.edu!Sgroup+@mtdca.att.com Date: 12 Oct 1990 9:19 EDT Subject: Flemming's Lib Sounds like a good name for a novel... > Here's my updatet list of self-sampled disks: I now have the entire Flemming Library in the Sgroup Library. Thomas has done a very good job (even if some of his drum samples were clipped to high heaven :-). Some very exciting sounds. I'm still waiting on the R8 sounds (hey gimme a break! I got married last week!). Anyway, those Alesis HR-16B samples are very hip and big as a house (I EQ'd them even a little bigger in some cases, brighter in most cases). They jump right out at you. I haven't converted them all. Soon. This weekend I should finally be able to do some more Matrix samples. I'm going to try to do and entire bass disk, and an entire lead disk. More as it comes... Sample in Peace, gfd -- Date: Fri, 12 Oct 90 12:57:20 -0400 (EDT) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Sgroup Subject: Re: Flemming's Lib Geez George, you're the second person to get married on this list. My God, what's going on? I am pretty eager to get back to sampling, but the past month has been spent on what I sample for, Music! I recently put together a score for a 25min video, and have been finishing up some pieces for a cassette I'm releasing (shamless self promotion!). I swear I will have a few more disks to contribute to the library in the next few weeks. I am also eager to get ahold of the 16B samples, they sound great! neil -- >From: gfd@mtdca.att.com Date: Fri, 12 Oct 90 13:30 EDT To: Neil Anthony Herzinger Subject: Re: Flemming's Lib > Geez George, you're the second person to get married on this list. > My God, what's going on? I got a great deal on a 16-bit wife, 64 times oversampling. I finally get some good use out my joystick... (***note: I do have a tasteless streak in me!:-) > I am pretty eager to get back to sampling, but the past month has been > spent on > what I sample for, Music! I recently put together a score for a 25min ^^^^^^ um, could you describe that? Sounds familiar... > video, and > have been finishing up some pieces for a cassette I'm releasing (shamless self > promotion!). > I swear I will have a few more disks to contribute to the library in the > next few > weeks. I am also eager to get ahold of the 16B samples, they sound great! Hey, you and all others should feel shame that a lions share of the new samples arecoming from 1/2-way across the planet. Norway Rules!!! gfd -- Date: Mon, 15 Oct 1990 12:25:32 PDT >From: DTycholis.LAX1B@xerox.com Subject: Re: Flemming's Lib To: gfd@mtdca.att.COM Cc: Sgroup+@andrew.cmu.EDU george, Contratulations!! how about posting a digitized photo (gif format, please) of the traditional cake cutting pose? Very best wishes to you both, Don P.S.: You mean you *ACTUALLY* have HR-16B samples in your hot little hands!?!?! Lucky dog.....well, guess I'd better get those guitar samples done pronto :-) -- Date: Wed, 17 Oct 1990 10:04:22 PDT >From: DTycholis.LAX1B@xerox.com Subject: Re: Flemming's Lib To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Cc: sjs@btr.COM I am forwarding this to the Sgroup as it was sent directly to me ( by accident, I assume). My personal response follows.... ------------------------------- I need some ideas of stuff to sample so that I can trade for the HR-16 samples and the R-8 samples and some of the other stuff I have been reading about. But what can I sample that would be of interest. I have an M1 and a DW-8000. Would synth samples be good for you all. How about some MIDI stack samples? later sjs@btr.com --------------------------------- M1, DW-8000, or stacked multisamples would be great! my preference is for those timbres which are somewhat unique or characteristic of a particular synth. When there is a choice of sounds (due to velocity-response, etc.), slightly agressive sounds are preferable, as they can be toned down (as desired) with post-processing. It's tough to liven up a too-mellow/subtle sample without adding noise. Thanks in advance for contributing to the sample library, Don -- >From: gfd@mtdca.att.com >From: g.f.demarest@mtdca.att.com To: att!andrew.cmu.edu!Sgroup+@mtdca.att.com Date: 17 Oct 1990 14:38 EDT Subject: Sample idea sampler > I need some ideas of stuff to sample so that I can trade for the HR-16 > samples and the R-8 samples and some of the other stuff I have been reading > about. But what can I sample that would be of interest. I have an M1 and a > DW-8000. Would synth samples be good for you all. How about some MIDI stack > samples? > > later > > sjs@btr.com > > --------------------------------- > > M1, DW-8000, or stacked multisamples would be great! my preference is for > those timbres which are somewhat unique or characteristic of a particular > synth. Here they are: 10 quick sampling ideas (beyond getting the M1 and DW-8000 sounds (I personally would love some of the classic DW-8000 brass, strings and clav-type sounds)) 1. Take a synth sound that will sustain. Jam the sustain pedal to get an infinite sound. Put your sampler 3 rooms away and run a garden hose from the speaker to the sampler room (where there is a mic). SAMPLE IT. 2. Get a coffee can (empty, half-full, half full with water, jello) close mic it, send output to a chorus, delay or gated reverb. Sample outout of effect. 3. Get an old, old record player (with an indestructible stylus). Take output and put it into a guitar amp. Lift the needle 3 inches. DROP. Let bounce, scrape, kneed, cool on rack and add herbs. mic output of guitar amp. Works well with chipmunk records slowed down so you can tell that Alvin is played by Merv Griffin. SAMPLE IT. 4. Turn on your television to a basketball game. mic the TV speaker and attempt to isolate sneaker noise on gym floor. Put it through any effect you may have. Nike's seem to squeak a lot. 5. Play as many octaves and 5th of a single tone on both of your synths. Have both sustain indefinitely. Put the output speaker (good, or cheap) in your garage. Turn it up loud. Place the mic 10 feet from the speaker in a metal pail. SAMPLE IT. 6. Have a friend (preferably naked) in the next room. Put a mic very close the adjoining wall and have your friend hit the wall with various parts of his/her body. SAMPLE IT. 7. Borrow a portable cassette (a poor quality micro-cassette could be ideal) and close mic any sustained or percussive sound (motor running, fog horn, someone taking a hammer to a dead fish, etc). SAMPLE IT. 8. Take a synth put and put it through a long reverb. Set the reverb so that its output is 100% effect (ie no original signal). Sample that. Short and long. 9. Take a wooden ruler, place it on a desk so that a good 8 inches hang off the edge, apply pressure downward on the part over the desk and with the other hand, pluck the other end (note: this was done with great effect on one of the Art of Noise albums. None the worse for already having been done). 10. Bring your sampler to work. Put a mic near the top of your desk. Pound on your desk with your fist until someone comes in and screams. Sample the fist AND the screams. 11. You get the idea. Zillions of sounds out there to be found, taken and used. Never discount the idea of using outboard effects as part of the sample itself. Sample in Peace, gfd -- Date: Thu, 18 Oct 90 01:16:15 -0400 (EDT) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Sgroup Subject: Re: Flemming's Lib CC: sjs@btr.COM I would be in great favor of MIDI stack samples as well. They make a lot of economic sense, and they can sometimes be quite powerful. I urge you to go ahead with it. neil -- >From: gfd@mtdca.att.com >From: g.f.demarest@mtdca.att.com To: att!andrew.cmu.edu!Sgroup+@mtdca.att.com Date: 18 Oct 1990 9:29 EDT Subject: re: sample idea sampler > (sample ideas deleted) > > Thanks for the suggestions. I think I can come out of my sampling closet > now and have some fun too. I wonder what ever made me think I had to send > in studio quality stuff to qualify for the disk exchange. Actually, this brings up a point that I've been meaning to post for a while. I want to make it clear that I never put any quality limitations on what "qualifies" for the sample library. I laid down guidelines so that an active few people wouldn't be doing all the work with little return for their efforts. It was just a motivator to get people sampling in earnest. The more people sample, the better the odds that all of us will get something new that we can use. So far, Norway, New Jersey, Ohio and California seem to be the sampling hot-spots :-) Keep it up! > Anyone need Homer Simpson imitations? NO! :-) gfd -- To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Date: 27 Oct 90 10:16:14 EDT (Sat) >From: david!david@cis.ohio-state.edu (David A. Roth) I use Alchemy with my S-550 and I am having a devil of a time trying to set useable loops. Anyone out there have any suggestions? thanks in advance ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steve Schow | But you don't need to use the claw, if you pick the (415) 366-8778 | pear of the big paw paw....have I given you a clue? (415) 354-4992 | sjs@btr.com | - Baloo the Bear ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- >From: g.f.demarest@mtdca.att.com To: att!andrew.cmu.edu!Sgroup+@mtdca.att.com Date: 29 Oct 1990 9:17 EST Subject: Alchemy > I use Alchemy with my S-550 and I am having a devil of a time trying to set > useable loops. Anyone out there have any suggestions? > Steve Schow | But you don't need to use the claw, if you pick the Steve, I have the Digidesign SD II stuff (which is similar, I have heard) and I no longer bother to do looping with the thing. It's just a lot easier on the sampler itself. You can change the loop point while you're listening to it which can't be done with SD II. gfd -- >From: g.f.demarest@mtdca.att.com To: att!andrew.cmu.edu!Sgroup+@mtdca.att.com Date: 30 Oct 1990 8:48 EST Subject: S-550 and sampling > If we are both talking about the S-550...then I would really like to hear > some ideas from you and everyone else on how to set up a good sampling > environment. How do I set it up so that after I sample the wave, I can > then hear it? How can I hear the sample with its loop...as I change the loop > point? Well, I have the S-330, but I can't imagine that the S-550 would be different (although I have been wrong in the past (only once, I believe :-)). If you have a midi keyboard hooked up, sending on the channel of first active program, you should be able to hear the sample right after you sample it. I do this with the S-330 all the time. In the loop window, you can advance the begin/end/loop point while you hold down a key. Of course, you'll hear some clicks as the value moves but if the loop is short, it's not noticable. You can then increment/decrement the loop value until it's smooth. Most of the looping I have done has been single cycle loops at the end of wave. This tends to sound flat (not in pitch). But I've found that a little detuning here, a little LFO there, a little filtering and the sound can be usable. A lot of the sounds I have sampled have interesting attack transients and then simmer down. The bottom line is, some things just don't loop well. Loops require a lot of tweaking. > It would have been nice to use the cross-fade looping capabilities of > Alchemy, but as long as the loops come out alright, then I am cool. I'm > really thinking that I like the Turbosynth software a lot more. You can do > some cool things with with it. You can take samples into it, and then tweak > them around. > > Steve Schow I've thought about getting that, but I gotta make some music now. You can work on sounds too much... gfd -- Date: Tue, 30 Oct 1990 13:43:44 PST >From: DTycholis.LAX1B@xerox.com Subject: Re: S-550 and sampling To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.EDU Cc: gfd@mtdca.att.COM Steve Schow writes: > How do I set it up so that after I sample the wave, I can > then hear it? The S-550 (I'm not familiar with the others) has this twitchy quirk: After you press the mouse button to start the sampling process, if the mouse is moved enought for the S-550 to notice an X-Y position change, you cannot play the sample back via midi from the "sample" screen any longer, unless you changeto a new screen. Because of this, now use my DX-7 sustain pedal to trigger the sampling, and then STAY AWAY FROM THE MOUSE while playing my keyboard, until ready to either sample again, or move into the Truncate or Loop screens. Works great when sampling a guitar, too :-). I don't remember if the quirk occurs if you move the mouse *while it is sampling* or just right after (when the "working" message goes away). Do others have this problem or is it just me (hasn't been the first time :-)? Regards, Don -- >From: att!WLV.IMSD.CONTEL.COM!pete%WLBR@mtdca.att.com Date: Tue, 30 Oct 90 13:21:31 -0800 To: att!andrew.cmu.edu!Sgroup+@mtdca.att.com, gfd@mtdca.att.com Subject: Re: S-550 and sampling I'm a neophyte S-330 user... I did try to get a bit of sampling started, but found that the sound seemed to be mapped to all keys (and all channels?).. How do I map the tone/patch so that I can have several channels and key ranges with separate tones? The 330 manual isn't all that helpful... Thanks! Pete Lyall -- To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: S-550 and sampling Date: 30 Oct 90 23:35:18 EST (Tue) >From: david!david@cis.ohio-state.edu (David A. Roth) [...] >> It would have been nice to use the cross-fade looping capabilities of >> Alchemy, but as long as the loops come out alright, then I am cool. I'm >> really thinking that I like the Turbosynth software a lot more. You can do >> some cool things with with it. You can take samples into it, and then tweak >> them around. >> >> Steve Schow > >I've thought about getting that, but I gotta make some music now. You can >work on sounds too much... > >gfd > What does Alchemy sell for? Will it run ok on a Mac+ w/4 megs? Thanks, David -- >From: g.f.demarest@mtdca.att.com To: att!andrew.cmu.edu!Sgroup+@mtdca.att.com Date: 31 Oct 1990 9:14 EST Subject: Sampling with the S-330 > I'm a neophyte S-330 user... I did try to get a bit of sampling started, but > found that the sound seemed to be mapped to all keys (and all channels?).. > > How do I map the tone/patch so that I can have several channels and > key ranges with separate tones? The 330 manual isn't all that helpful... OK, for the S-330 or S-50, there are 32 slots for "tones". A "patch" is a collection of tones (or 1 tone) and some additional parameters (tuning, volume, bend range, etc). If you wish to map more than 1 tone to a patch, you must enter the "split" function in the "edit" menu. Ordinarily, when I multi-sample an instrument (ie sample from different registers of the same sound) I will take 3 or 4 samples, usually about an octave and a half apart, depending on the tone. Let's say that I sampled 3 tones into slots 11, 12, 13. I go into the split menu, get a midi keyboard set up select to tone I want (I'll start with the lowest tone, 11). I then change the tone function from "info" to "1st tone" or "1st and 2nd tone" (doesn't matter unless I am doing a crossfade or vel-switch). I then play on the midi keyboard the range of notes that this tone will be mapped to (let's say the lowest 2 octaves). I then change the selected tone (1st tone) to tone 12, play the middle 2 octaves, etc. Pretty straight forward. Also, something to keep in mind, when you're sampling, only have one midi channel active in play mode. unbfortunately with uninitialized patches, tone 11 is the default tone, so it will sound on all those patches... Also, anyone on this list who uses the samplers without a monitor, I can't emphasize enough how useful it is. Get a cheapo monochrome monitor and plug it in. I think that the S-330 might even require one (?). A mouse I can do without, a monitor: no f***in' way! Hope this helps. gfd -- Date: Wed, 31 Oct 90 13:06:00 -0500 (EST) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Sgroup Subject: Re: Sampling with the S-330 I completely agree with George about the monitor. The thing should come with the sampler when you buy it, it's incredibly useful. I don't think I've really ever looked at the LED readout of the S50 itself. neil -- >From: att!WLV.IMSD.CONTEL.COM!pete%WLBR@mtdca.att.com Date: Wed, 31 Oct 90 09:08:36 -0800 To: att!andrew.cmu.edu!Sgroup+@mtdca.att.com, gfd@mtdca.att.com Subject: Re: Sampling with the S-330 Thanks for the key mapping help! I'll go into a sampling frenzy tonight. Maybe I'll even get some guitar samples ready to send out. (I have some fabulous guitar signal processing equipment, and really get a nice palette of tones). I agree on the monitor... I have a simple little NEC monochrome that does the job (composite video)... On the mouse... I considered it a frivolity until I recently had to buy new racks and restructure all the goodies. The S330 is in a back wrenching lower berth now, and really a pain to work with. The mouse looks like it may be a necessity now. Anybody have a feel for what the street price is? Where can I snag one for a reasonably good deal? Pete -- >From: g.f.demarest@mtdca.att.com To: att!andrew.cmu.edu!Sgroup+@mtdca.att.com Date: 31 Oct 1990 16:07 EST Subject: Meeses to Pieces > Subject: Re: Sampling with the S-330 > > Thanks for the key mapping help! I'll go into a sampling frenzy tonight. > Maybe I'll even get some guitar samples ready to send out. (I have > some fabulous guitar signal processing equipment, and really get a nice > palette of tones). Cool. I would be interested in samples of guitar licks, slashes, scrapes, screams or whatever. In other words, things that can be used as sounds rather than tones to be looped to sound like a real guitar. These kinds of sounds can really wake up a dance groove, whereas I can't see myself using a sampled guitar to write rock and roll tunes when there are many able players out there. I guess this underlines the fact that I don't try the "sampler fake out" too much. Drums is my limit (with perhaps a slap bass sample here and there! Musique Concrete wit da fonk! > On the mouse... I considered it a frivolity until I recently had to buy > new racks and restructure all the goodies. The S330 is in a back wrenching > lower berth now, and really a pain to work with. The mouse looks like it > may be a necessity now. Anybody have a feel for what the street price is? > Where can I snag one for a reasonably good deal? I have thought about a mouse too. Unfortunately they are like $100 or some shit!! I refuse to pay so much for such a dinky thing. That, as they say, "get's my goat", "fry's my bacon", etc... Since it's fall, did anyone notice that "maples" are just a mangled version of "sample"? Watch that as a question on Jeopardy... gfd -- Date: Wed, 31 Oct 1990 12:56:34 PST >From: DTycholis.LAX1B@xerox.com Subject: Re:Sampling with the S-330 To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.EDU >Also, anyone on this list who uses the samplers without a monitor, I >can't emphasize enough how useful it is. Get a cheapo monochrome > monitor and plug it in. Amen, bro'....I could not handle sampling without my monitor. For some of our newer members who missed my post in August 90, there is an adapter available to connect your TV to the S-series samplers for $99.95. If interested, I can re-post the details. Don