From mailbox.syr.edu!naherzin Sat Oct 31 20:46:56 1992 Received: from mailbox.syr.edu ([128.230.18.5]) by watdragon.uwaterloo.ca with SMTP id <168412-2>; Sat, 31 Oct 1992 20:46:49 -0500 Received: from rodan.acs.syr.edu by mailbox.syr.edu (4.1/CNS) id AA10426; Sat, 31 Oct 92 20:47:20 EST Received: by rodan.acs.syr.edu (4.1/Spike-2.0) id AA01438; Sat, 31 Oct 92 20:42:32 EST Message-Id: <9211010142.AA01438@rodan.acs.syr.edu> To: jmsellen@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca Subject: 1990 August Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1992 20:42:31 -0500 From: "neil herzinger" Status: R Date: Tue, 31 Jul 90 23:55:54 -0400 (EDT) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Sgroup Subject: Re: Hi all--This looks like it' I'm not sure about this but isn't Roland discontinuing the S50/550 line now that the S770 is out? I hope not..... Even if they do, you can probably still buy one from a dealer's stock. The only hardware I know of for the S50 is a hard disk. I think I might heard of an 8 output expansion as well but I'm not sure. There is software to convert S550 sounds into S50 sounds (I have it). The 550 seems to have a good few advantages over the 50, and you might find them for around the same price. It is true that the S50 can be used as an 'all in one' board when you don't feel like lugging a lot of equipment around. On a side note, I used Performer for the first time today on a friend's mac. Wow! a hell of a lot more powerful then my....hmph cx5m.....I am looking forward to using my new Mac in my music set up. neil -- Date: Wed, 1 Aug 90 00:02:26 -0400 (EDT) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Sgroup Subject: Don's guitar samples I think that's a great idea, I don't think I have any decent guitar samples at all. I guess I'm looking for clean and distorted chords (5ths) solo leads, and muted rhythm stuff. (That covers it all huh?!). I attempted some guitar samples on my own, but I guess knowing how to play comes in to account just a bit... neil -- >From: att!cbema!wbf@cis.ohio-state.edu Date: Mon, 6 Aug 90 12:12:22 -0400 Subject: Director-S Software for the S-550 Does anybody use Director-S sequencing software on their S-550? I'm having a bit of a problem that my local Roland dealer can't solve. The problem is that when certain songs are loaded in, some notes of some patterns don't sound the first time played. Repeat the pattern, manually or by a second use in the song list, and all works well. No combination of copying songs, patterns, disks, or anything makes a difference. I even took my disks in to the dealer and duplicated the problem EXACTLY on their S-550! If anybody else uses this software, I'd be interested in hearing about your experiences with it. In general, though, I like it a lot but for this one little irritation. If anybody uses the MC-300 or MC-500, I'd like to hear from you, too. Bill Fox att!cbema!wbf -- >From: paul@MIT.EDU Date: Mon, 6 Aug 90 23:50:04 -0400 To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: RE: Director-S Software for the S-550 I noticed the same "misfeature" that Bill described, and note stealing seems to happen differently on different plays of the same song. -Paul -- Date: 7 Aug 90 18:27:20 PDT (Tuesday) Subject: Re: New guitar samples >From: DTycholis.LAX1B@Xerox.COM To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.EDU RE: Guitar samples: Steve, Neil: Thanks for the ideas, especially Steve's about layering the guitar samples to get a huge grinding effect....I'll give it a try. Trying to recreate a guitar sound, even with my experience (20+ years), seems to be a bit tricky. My goal is to record a guitar sample so when you play it back you can get the "right effect" on a keyboard or sequencer. For example, I'm playing with that classic "muffled-power -fifth-chunka-chunka with occasional ringing octave harmonic" that's popular for the verses of metal-type tunes. The problem is that with a sample of a single stroke "chunk", quick repetition of note-ons kills the tail end of the sample too quickly to sound right; it needs some tight overlapping of several samples. A longer sample with multiple pick hits sounds very real, but the key-transposition speed change wrecks it, and anyway, you are stuck with whatever beats/min. that I played it at. Perhaps spreading multiple chunks on nearby half-step keys will allow for the required overlap? Losing some notes is OK for sequencing but how do you feel about this scheme for live performance? (anyway, metal guitarists only play chords in first position E-F-F#-G-A, right? 8-). Oh well, maybe just some straight power chords, initially... I'm interested in finding out if people want to chew up memory with 3-second chord decays. Any preference on the durations? RE: sending samples around.... Since more than one person is interested in my guitar samples, they shall be submitted to George (gfd%mtdca.att) for incorporation in the unofficial S-series SUG library. [ As I see it, George has sort of volunteered to be the Un-Official Sample Tweaker/Librarian and Sample Swap Meet Coordinator. Please correct me if necessary, George! ] George has generously offered that one can request samples from his library of Public Domain stuff by sending him some diskettes blank or otherwise; though he has promised to respond muy pronto and twofold, if the submitted disks are loaded up with interesting PD samples. (If you would like a copy of the posting describing his offer, I can forward it.) Regards, Don --------- DTycholis.lax1b@Xerox.com -- Date: Wed, 8 Aug 90 10:59:31 -0700 >From: pete%WLBR@WLV.IMSD.CONTEL.COM (Pete Lyall) To: DTycholis.LAX1B@xerox.com, sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: New guitar samples Yes - please... I'd like to see the sample offer again! At the time it was originally posted, I had an MKS-100 (smaller, and not one of the current crop of 'S-brothers' [50/550/330]... I have since acquired an S-330, and am having a ball with it. Is there a sample archive here on the net? I have a few interesting ones to submit, if so. Naturally, I'd also love to snag some new samples. Is there a defined format? I have SampleVision, which also comes with a SV to Digidesign (?) format converter (or was that SounDesign ?).. BTW - I'm also a long time (27 years) guitar player, and have a pretty fair guitar rack. The guitar samples from the Roland library completely underwhelm me too. I haven't been worried about it, since I do most of my guitar stuff in real time, but I may be able to help fatten the guitar sample coffers a bit, when I get the hang of sampling with the S330 (no manual - yet). Pete Lyall -- >From: g.f.demarest@mtdca.att.com To: att!arpa!andrew.cmu.edu!Sgroup+@mtdca.att.com Date: 8 Aug 1990 13:12 EDT Subject: S-library (repost) S-groupies, I have already had a few responses from the first wave of interested parties. I thought I would repost the ground rules. Thus far, I have samples of the Kawai drum machine (R-100?), and the yamaha RX-5(?) submitted by group members. I am slowly adding Korg M3r synth and drums samples. I will be able to get my hands on an Alesis HR-16 and perhaps samples from the Roland R8. I may simply create library disks by instrument. I have about 25 snare sounds, 20 kicks, etc. I've sampled some percussive sounds from my Matrix 1000 and even stolen a few drum sounds from some CD's. (FBI please disregard this last statement). Anyway, nothing heinous here. I must admit that my initial performance has been abyssmally slow (my apologies to those parties involved). I am now in a better position to do this and would encourage more participation. As I get myself more organized, I will post a list of what is available. I just picked up a new DAT machine so I have a much better system to work with (now, if my mixer comes back from the shop, I'll really be in business!). So far, participants have courteously heeded my requests below. You have my undying appreciation. So, send in disks if you're interested and I will post a listing soon of what's available. Be good. George ======================Obtaining Samples from The S-Group===================== (revised 8/8/90) OK, here we go. Some very basic rules: 1. disks sent and received should not contain Roland library samples unless seriously (and usefully) deranged to the point of non-recognition. 2. Every disk you send should be FORMATTED (I have both S-50 and S-330/S-550) and labeled. Unformatted disks will likely be returned empty and unformatted. Make sure you make note what machine they are formatted for. 3. For every disk of sounds you send, you'll get the original back (tweaked if necessary and time permitting) plus 2 disks filled. That is, if you send me one sound disk and 2 additional empty FORMATTED disks, you get 3 full disks back. A note on what type of samples you would like would help me choose. Otherwise, I'll send out a "best of" series. Limit 10 disks total. 4. I had originally thought of limiting my activities to drum samples but I think I'll do whatever. Make a note that I'm not particularly interested in acoustic instrument samples (get a proteus) unless they are unusual or extremely good. 5. For the most part, I'm not going to spend a lot of time looping these samples because of the time involved. Nor will I do much vel-fades or splits or whatever. Expect tones, not patches. 6. Return addressed postage (you know, SASE) is mandatory. I need stamped addressed envelopes or I'll wait until you send them. Sorry, no exceptions. 7. For those of you who just want disks for nothing: if you send formatted disks, I'll send something back: WHEN TIME ALLOWS. It could be weeks, it could be months: no promises. Folks that send sounds: I'll do my best for a week turnaround. 8. Use your imagination. Nobody wants 20 samples from Star Trek no matter how cute they are. We're making music, not video games :-). 9. My Address: George Demarest 110 East Fairview Avenue South Plainfield, NJ 07080 (201) 957-6392 10. Sample everything! I especially like synth stuff, samples for House-type stuff, drum samples, noises. 11. Please, sample all sounds at 30K sampling rate. There really is a difference! 12. Samples must not be used to barter for Iraqi petroleum. You may fire when ready: but read the above again before you do. I intend to have fun with this, but with over 20 members, it could get hairy and I don't have time to waste. It's really an easy deal and could get each of us some good stuff. Get into it... George -- >From: att!cbema!wbf@cis.ohio-state.edu Date: Fri, 10 Aug 90 10:13:56 -0400 Subject: Connecting a Color Monitor Hi S-Groupers! I've been running from the B&W video output but wanted to go color so I bought a Commodore 1084S monitor. Unfortunately, the picture rolls. The B&W connection works on this monitor so its probably OK. What monitors and cables are you colorized folks using? Bill Fox att!cbema!wbf -- >From: att!cbema!wbf@cis.ohio-state.edu Date: Fri, 10 Aug 90 13:32:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Connecting a Color Monitor >From: Peter Delevoryas Thanks, Peter, for the tip on PCB Technical Services. Unfotunately, information [(213) 555-1212] has no listing! ;( Do you remember the phone number and person at Roland who told you about that company? Thanks, again! Bill Fox -- Date: 10 Aug 90 11:20:49 PDT (Friday) Subject: Re: Connecting a Color Monitor >From: DTycholis.LAX1B@Xerox.COM To: att!cbema!wbf@cis.ohio-state.EDU Cc: DTycholis.LAX1B@Xerox.COM, sgroup+@andrew.cmu.EDU Bill, I've got an AST EGA color monitor on my S-550 and it works beautifully. Also, an NEC MultiSync Plus works as well, yet no better even though the resolution is much higher. The cable I'm using is the standard Roland RGB Monitor Cable for the S-550. As an interesting aside, when I accidently hooked up the NEC MultiSync Plus "hot" (power on for both ends) the S-550 got sort of "stuck" in a mode where the horizontal sync seemed to be lost, as the picture was sort of "tearing diagonally" (I apologize for using such strong technical terms 8-). Powering off and on maybe 10-15 times, and disconnecting reconnecting, did not correct the problem. And, it had the same problem with several different color monitors at my local music store. My S-550 was sent to an authorized Roland service center. When I inquired as to the fix, the tech said that he just had to run a "special diagnostic disk program" to "reset the video circuits". He swore that no hardware fix was employed. The tech manager refused to sell me a copy of the diagnostic disk, and said that Roland prohibits them from letting customers have it. I've had no problems ever since, but I have not re-tried the "hot connection" either 8-). Don ----------- Don Tycholis DTycholis.LAX1B@Xerox.Com -- Date: 10 Aug 90 11:37:56 PDT (Friday) Subject: Re: Connecting a Color Monitor >From: DTycholis.LAX1B@Xerox.COM To: att!cbema!wbf@cis.ohio-state.EDU Cc: DTycholis.LAX1B@Xerox.COM, sgroup+@andrew.cmu.EDU Bill, Regarding Roland service, Peter is probably referring to a shop over by Santa Monica. I don't remember the name either (PCB?), but they are a very good Roland shop (they sell special ROMS which will print your name in the LED display at power up, and lots of custom video cables, etc.). I just called Roland in L.A., CA. (213) 685-5141, but the S-550 Product Specialist does not know what I am talking about! When I called this outfit several years ago, I got their name and number from a back issue of the Roland User Magazine, where they had a little write up one of their video adapter products. This weekend, I can dig through the back issues to look for their number. The Roland rep recommended I call "ToneGenics" in Van Nuys (818) 786-1177, which I did but just got an answering machine, on which I left a message to call me. I'll let you know what comes up. Don ------------ DTycholis.LAX1B@Xerox.Com 213-333-3521 -- >From: g.f.demarest@mtdca.att.com To: att!arpa!andrew.cmu.edu!Sgroup+@mtdca.att.com Date: 10 Aug 1990 16:12 EDT Subject: S-Library Folks, As pertaining to my mail that I send out this week about available sounds etc. I neglected to mention that I would appreciate a short mail message whenever you plan on sending out some disks. This is just so that I can be prepared for all the traffic that's coming in. Thanks. At present, ALL disks that I have received in the mail are finished and sent out. Keep them coming. gfd -- Date: Fri, 10 Aug 90 13:53:22 PDT >From: jeff%jeff.esd@sgi.com (Jeff Mock) To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: S-770 Has anyone seen an S-770 for sale yet? I've soaked up all the glossy bits about it and Roland has sunk a deep hook in me but it doesn't seem to be out yet. When is it going to be released? How much will it cost? Can it record real-time to a SCSI disk drive? Are the modulation routings sufficient to make a WX7 happy? jeff mock jeff@sgi.com -- Date: Fri, 10 Aug 90 15:39:49 PDT >From: Peter Delevoryas To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: PBC tech, not PCB Sorry again, I gave out the wrong name of this place, they're PBC, which is why you can't find 'em if you ask the operator for PCB's #. Anyway, I just talk to 'em to make sure they're in business. I asked them if they made anything else for Roland products but they said no, they mainly sell computer peripherals. Could the person who posted about a company that sells other Roland accessories send me the #? thanks, Peter D. -- Date: Fri, 10 Aug 90 19:07:58 EST >From: Larry DeLuca To: jeff%jeff.esd@sgi.com, sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: S-770 All the local stores here have them. They are very pretty. I refuse to go near one when it is turned on until at the very least I have finished paying for the rest of my studio. larry... To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: Connecting a Color Monitor Date: 11 Aug 90 13:51:12 EDT (Sat) >From: david!david@cis.ohio-state.edu (David A. Roth) >Subject: Connecting a Color Monitor >Apparently-To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu > >Hi S-Groupers! > > I've been running from the B&W video output but wanted to go color >so I bought a Commodore 1084S monitor. Unfortunately, the picture rolls. >The B&W connection works on this monitor so its probably OK. What monitors >and cables are you colorized folks using? > >Bill Fox att!cbema!wbf I would be interested to know the costs and mail order sources too. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _TT /| |~ >====ttt===< | O| |~ att!osu-cis!david!david \{_|||_\ \\| O| or n8emr!david!david David A. Roth uunet!abvax!osu-cis!david!david From CompuServ: send >internet:david@david.uucp ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- >From: att!cbema!wbf@cis.ohio-state.edu Date: Mon, 13 Aug 90 15:28:42 -0400 Subject: Connecting a Color Monitor Hi S-grouper! Many thanks to all who've responded to my recent postings. Here's an update of where I stand. The STV I is out of production and the STV II is still only $99.95. Add $7.00 UPS to Ohio and I'm getting a cashier's check tonight for $106.95 to send to: PBC 11026 West Washington Blvd. Culver City, California 90230 (213) 838-6841 PBC doesn't accept plastic or personal checks (which sometimes are rubber). They designed this box expressly to go with Roland samplers because the samplers put out negative vertical sync. (Couldn't I just invert the sync pulses with a CMOS inverter and power it from the 5V pin on the Roland RGB DIN output?) Everything else PBC sells is designed elsewhere as they're basically a distributor. Bill Fox -- Date: 13 Aug 90 10:49:13 PDT (Monday) Subject: Re: PBC tech, not PCB >From: DTycholis.LAX1B@Xerox.COM To: pdel@ads.COM Cc: DTycholis.LAX1B@Xerox.COM, sgroup+@andrew.cmu.EDU, att!cbema!wbf@cis.ohio-state.EDU You're right, they are PBC. About 2 years ago, they introduced a special adapter to allow connection of an S-50/550 to a color TV set rather than a color monitor, and claimed that it worked "almost as well, you can hardly tell the difference". It is AC-powered, has 8-pin DIN input connector for ANY Roland Sampler. There are two output cables: the first is a coax to RF; can be attached to the antennae connector of any TV, the second is a direct video composite which can be connected to any VCR or TV video input. This was mentioned in the Roland User magazine Vol 6, No. 2, p. 73. Hmmmm...I'll give'em a call. I checked with them just now, and they still offer this device. It works with the S-770, S-550, S-330, S-50 (any Roland Sampler with the RGB output DIN connector) and is $99.95 (note: they no longer carry the cables and customized ROMs, due to lack of demand). For anyone who is interested, their address is: PBC Technical Services 11026 Washington Blvd. Culver City, CA 90230 (213) 838-2180 Regards, Don ---------- Don Tycholis DTycholis.LAX1B@Xerox.Com (213) 333-3521 -- >From: g.f.demarest@mtdca.att.com To: att!arpa!andrew.cmu.edu!Sgroup+@mtdca.att.com Date: 14 Aug 1990 9:51 EDT Subject: Looping the loop Fruit Loopers, Somebody on the group mentioned at one time that they were using some sample editing software to aid them in looping samples. The party in question mentioned that a trick they used was to cut the level of the sample down a bit right at the loop point or some such thing. Anyone remember this? Perhaps a good thread of discussion within the group might be to discuss sampling and looping techniques. Any takers? I've had some pretty good luck with it but would be glad to learn more. Also, current S-library archives include: ============================================================================ Yamaha RX-5 drum machine (complete) Kawai R-100 drum machine (complete) Alesis HR-16 drum machine (should be completed this week) Oberheim Matrix 1000 analog synth (2 full disks). bass sounds, square wave lead, electronic percussion-type sounds (in a kit). Roland D-50 pads (half a disk) Korg M3r (1 disk; others soon) Bass, lead sound, Acoustic Bass layered with conga (very nice). Korg M3r drum sounds (should complete next week) there are some great sounds here. Korg SG-1D sampled grand (1 disk) sampled by a friend. Very interesting stereo effect makes you seem like you're "inside" the piano. very nice. Miscelaneous samples - guitar shots, CD player fast forwarding, drums stolen from Japan's Tin Drum album, etc. (1 disk or so). ============================================================================ I plan to do more M3r, Matrix and DX-7 stuff soon. I'm also going to try for a really good trumpet sound (multi-sampled and layered). More news as time goes by.... Be good. George -- To: sgroup@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Samples via e-mail. (R/W Roland disk on the Mac) Date: 14 Aug 90 11:53:53 EDT (Tue) >From: david!david@cis.ohio-state.edu (David A. Roth) I still can't believe that no one has written a utility to run on the Mac to read/write data for the Roland Samplers. Just for the purpose of reading the data from a disk and uuencoding it so it would be uudecoded at the other end and written back to Roland format on the Mac. I don't have any compilers for my Mac. Anyone have any ideas? Disk utilities that they have used to examine the Roland disk format? Thanks in advance. David ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _TT /| |~ >====ttt===< | O| |~ att!osu-cis!david!david \{_|||_\ \\| O| or n8emr!david!david David A. Roth uunet!abvax!osu-cis!david!david From CompuServ: send >internet:david@david.uucp ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Date: 14 Aug 90 15:08:28 PDT (Tuesday) Subject: Re: Samples via e-mail. (R/W Roland disk on the Mac) >From: DTycholis.LAX1B@Xerox.COM To: david!david@cis.ohio-state.EDU Cc: DTycholis.LAX1B@Xerox.COM, sgroup@andrew.cmu.EDU David, I agree; there is a real void of PD and low-buck utility Mac software for the Roland gear. For the last few years, I've been tinkering with a program to read Tones from my S-550 into the Mac via Midi Sysex, display it, edit it, and write it back. I've lost the motivation to finish it off, as I never seem to have enought time to do it all and still live the American dream.... 8-). Actually, designing a user interface for an S-550 librarian has been a bother; if I had a better idea of how I should go about managing the Tones, parameters, and memory in the S-550, I might get going again on it. Feel free to offer suggestions! However, your idea is different, and sounds very useful as it would eliminate the trouble and expense of shipping floppies around. It shouldn't be difficult at all if someone can tell me how to access the Mac disk drive at the hardware level (i.e. read (and write) all the data on a track, seek to the next track, do it again). I would have to be able to get at every bit on the track, as I'm sure the Roland disk format is incomptible with the Mac's. Mac copy-protection busting software (e.g. Copy II Mac) can probably do this; darn, they forgot to include *the Source* for my $39.99! Apple highly discourages this sort of non-portable low-level programming, so I doubt that "Inside Mac" will help here. Does anyone know how this can be done? Regards, Don ----------- Don Tycholis DTycholis.LAX1B@Xerox.Com "It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues" -- Abraham Lincoln -- Date: Wed, 15 Aug 90 10:29:00 -0400 >From: Don Law To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: Samples via e-mail. (R/W Roland disk on the Mac) Don Tycholis writes: > It shouldn't be difficult at all if someone can tell me how > to access the Mac disk drive at the hardware level ... Well, I don't use a Mac, but here is my idea of how to get samples from the Roland onto the net (say for anonymous FTP): Dump the sample into a track on the sequencer with nothing else in the track. Save this track in MIDI standard format. [Optional step which applies for me - I work much better on my Unix machine than on the XT that runs the sequencer: Copy the file containing the dump to a computer on the internet.] Run a program that translates the MIDI track containing the sample (in a sysex, I assume) to some format suitable for distribution. This last step may not be necesary in some cases. I haven't actually tried this, but I plan to, including writing the translation program on a Unix system. This will eliminate the need to mess with reading a sample disk on a Mac disk drive. Comments? --Don Law dlaw@encore.com ...!uunet!gould!dlaw --Ada Development, MS404 --Encore Computer Corporation ***** In the computer lab, ***** --Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33313 ***** No one can hear you scream. ***** -- Date: Wed, 15 Aug 90 11:04 EDT >From: Eric S. Crawley Subject: Re: Samples via e-mail. (R/W Roland disk on the Mac) To: Don Law Cc: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu There are a few problems with the idea of recording samples as sequences and then sending the sequences around. The first is that there is no way to send sysex dumps from the panels of Roland Samplers. The only way to do sysex dumps in either direction is under program control. If someone wants to make some sequences that send the proper sysex bytes to send and receive the samples, then we might be able to do something. I don't recall the level of handshaking that is necessary to do this on Roland samplers. The next problem is that many sequencers cannot handle the volume of sysex data that would be involved and we could have problems with checksums failing. The proposal I made was to use some standard sample file format, say SoundDesigner and send these files around. The problem is that you can only send around Tones, in RolandSpeak, and you miss out on all the neat patch data. It would also require some sample editing software for all the users, unless someone wanted to hack together the code to do the job. I'm afraid we are stuck schelpping around disks until some of these problems can be solved. -- Date: 17 Aug 90 15:25:07 PDT (Friday) Subject: Bass Samples and M.C. Hammer Samples >From: DTycholis.LAX1B@Xerox.COM To: gfd@mtdca.att.COM Cc: nh0n+@andrew.cmu.EDU, DTycholis.LAX1B@Xerox.COM, att!arpa!andrew.cmu.EDU@Xerox.COM George, speaking of bass samples.... I'll send you a disk of some bass guitar sounds this weekend, which were sampled off the "System 360 MIDI Bass Demo Cassette Tape". The loops came out nicely in some cases, and OK in others; most of my bass notes are fairly short (<.5 sec) in general so no problem. The tones are interesting if you like electric bass samples (plenty of low-end grit), and sound very nice when layered with a synth bass patch (to add bite, or cover up some of the shorter sample lengths). I even got brave and created a velocity-switched slapped bass patch 8-). Also, as a project for my brother-in-law, I sampled several verses of M.C. Hammer's "You Can't Touch Dis" CD and used the samples to create a 45 minute-long (!!!!) Music-Minus-One tape which he and his friends rapped over. [ Disclaimer ON: No one was compensated in any way, remotely or otherwise, to do this, so it was strictly non-commercial !! Disclaimer OFF]. It sounds great, and with a little tweaking/quantizing of the sequence, could even be the basis of a follow-on record ( assuming permissions and legal/financial arrangements blah blah blah 8-). <> By the way, the stuff you sent me was great. I especially loved the "stereo" Korg piano! I'm looking forward to the Alesis 16-B samples when available. Thanks much, Don ----------- DTycholis.LAX1B@Xerox.Com -- Date: 17 Aug 90 17:29:30 PDT (Friday) Subject: Re: Looping the loop >From: "Donald_C._Tycholis.LAX1B"@Xerox.COM To: gfd@mtdca.att.COM Cc: DTycholis.LAX1B@Xerox.COM, Sgroup+@andrew.cmu.EDU I vaguely remember reading several articles on looping in the back issues of Music Technology Magazine (now defunct and folded into Home Studio & Recording), Electronic Musician, and Keyboard. Many of these articles are now several years old (how time flies!), but the concepts apply as much today as they did on the Emulator II and Akai S900 (watchit, starting to sound like an old-timer all ready 8-). As I recall, there were lots of helpful hints; however, there is no particularly earth-shattering secret to getting "the perfect loop", except the authors of these articles generally seemed to think that cross-fading would often save a hopeless loop, and Sound Designer made the process easier. Summary: Cross-fading is supposed to even out the differences in amplitude and frequency content at the beginning and end points of the sample loop. Cross-fading is not an instant cure; you must mess around with different combinations of amplitude adjustments and various start/end points. And just because the sampler software can't find the perfect loop, don't give up, it might be there, just start getting serious about trying various techniques. ------------ Well, time for a "sidebar (mag talk)" on crossfades: I've never tried cross-fading since I don't have Alchemy or Sound Designer for my Mac. Here's how cross-fading *might* be done ( and perhaps someone can set me straight on how it really works ) ... 1.) copy the "tail" of a sample to another memory slot, e.g., I 21. Most likely this piece exhibits decreasing amplitude ( > ). 2.) copy the tail to another memory slot, e.g. I 22 . 3.) reverse I 22, so this piece exhibits increasing amplitude ( < ). 4.) mix I 22 with I 21, resulting in a somewhat "hourglass shaped" piece ( >< ) 5.) compress the piece so that the amplitude at all points is as large as the initial starting point, thus filling in the hourglass into a solid "log". (here I go into my overly technical talk again 8-). 6.) either mix the log piece with the original tail, at the original copy start point, or cut the orignal tail out and paste the new piece in. (Note: the built-in S-550 editor doesn't compress - I think it does reverse though - so I've never tried the above steps; amplitude smoothing is definitely required to make this work. There is a "smoothing" function built-in to the S-550, but I've only tried that a few times in a hurry, didn't like it, and so don't know what good it does.) If this is how cross-fading works, you might be able to play around with the "copy, tweak, and mix back in" notion, even if your sampler software *does* have cross-fade, as this approach might give you more control over what happens. ------------ In sampling, it seems to help if you run the input signal through a compressor to smooth out the amplitude variations at the tail of the sample, which seem to cause more annoying "clicks" than frequency variations. Perhaps you could also smooth frequency variations post-process by using the digital filtering features of the built-in sample editor. I just avoid looping, in general 8-). If looping is required, my approach is to try everything and listen to the result. This is easiest on the sampler where you can listen as you move the start/end points. Can't imagine doing in on a Mac Plus where you cannot hear the result of a change. There is a card (Digidesign?) for the Mac II family where you can hear the results of a sample tweak, but I don't think it is as "interactive" as the S-550 software. Regards, Don PS - my apologies for being S-550-centric but I'm not familiar with the differences between the various models of the S-series. Also sorry for over-hyphenating 8-). -- >From: g.f.demarest@mtdca.att.com To: att!arpa!andrew.cmu.edu!Sgroup+@mtdca.att.com Date: 20 Aug 1990 9:20 EDT Subject: Loops, Basses and Coding > George, speaking of bass samples.... Yes, send them along. > Also, as a project for my brother-in-law, I sampled several verses of M.C. > Hammer's "You Can't Touch Dis" CD and used the samples to create a 45 > < the Performer file which sequences the song?>> Why not?! If nothing else it'd be good for a laugh. > By the way, the stuff you sent me was great. I especially loved the > "stereo" Korg piano! I'm looking forward to the Alesis 16-B samples when > available. Maybe I was unclear. I'm getting HR-16, not 16B samples :-(. I'm going to work on the 16B as well but I don't have access to one yet. I'm getting to know one of the salesmen at Sam Ash pretty well and he's promised to get some R-8 samples in exchange for stuff from this group. He's especially into good cymbal sounds for some jazz. Anyone got anything good? Also, I just did some sampling of Korg M3r drum sounds that came out great. Some great gated sounds. Some are very 16B-ish. Mostly hot synthy sounds. Not much one realism but lot's of punch. More on the way. Great posting on crossfades, by the way. Incidentally, I have the Digidesign Sound Tools with Sound Designer 2. I never thought of that approach to looping. Great ideas. You must know by now that mostly I do close loops (ie one period of a complex wave) and then cheat and detune and LFO the shit of the samples:-). I'll fire up Sound Designer this week and try the method you describe. Also, I was leaning towards Think C for programming the Mac. I would like tools to create dialog boxes, etc so that also pointed me towards MacApp. ************ * NOTE: ************ I'm going to rearrange the organization of the drum sample library. Right now I have about 30 snares, 20 Kicks, 25 toms, 15 cymbals, and a whole-bunch-o' percussion (electronic and otherwise). What I plan to do is group all similar instruments on a single disk. So far, I've made a snare and a kick disk. I'll do the others by this week. As I finish, those wanting drum sounds should take this into account. If you want the full library, it'll probably be 6 or 7 disks. I'll let you know when I'm done. > Thanks much, > Don Peace george george -- Date: 22 Aug 90 11:57:25 PDT (Wednesday) Subject: ToneGenics Has Custom Mods for Roland S-50 Sampler >From: DTycholis.LAX1B@Xerox.COM To: pdel@ads.COM Cc: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.EDU, DTycholis.LAX1B@Xerox.COM, Synth.AllAreas@Xerox.COM, Rec-Music-Synth@Eddie.MIT.EDU Thought y'all would be interested in knowing about this company, which sent me some information yesterday: Company: ToneGenics Corporation P.O. Box 8288 Van Nuys, Ca. 91409 Phone: (818) 786-1177 Products: S-50 +8 Output Mod & Updated S/W --> $350 S-50 SCSI Hard Disk Interface Mod --> $500 JC-120 Killer Distortion Mod --> $300 GM-70 (MIDI Guitar) All B-String Mod --> $150 GR-700 (Guitar Synth) MIDI In Mod --> $200 MT-32 Memory Backup Mod --> $95 D-50 Memory Expansion Mod --> $350 to 750 Of special interest to the S-Series Sampler distribution group are the S-50 mods. You can order the information by calling their number and leaving a message with your name and address. It took them about a week and a half to get it to me. Cheers, Don Disclaimer: I have absolutely no relationship with ToneGenics. I've never been a customer and probably will have no reason to be one, unless I inherit some of the above gear from my relatives. The S-Series Sampler support person at Roland referred me to them (when I queried the existence of PBC Technical Services, which he has never heard of), and I am merely sharing the information I recieved. -------- Don Tycholis DTycholis.LAX1B@Xerox.Com -- Date: Wed, 22 Aug 90 19:00:46 -0400 (EDT) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Sgroup Subject: Re: New guitar samples Forgive my tardiness on the subject, but I've been away from the nets for a few weeks. Your idea about seperate 'chunk' samples sounds like it would work. It would take a little mapping work, but you could sample two or three different versions of the same chord 'chunk' and map them consecutivley on the keyboard. You'd probably have to have your chords/notes in mind ahead of time, since you can't map in the conventional 12 tone octave. It might add alot for realism. Another factor in guitar playing/sound is the velocity. You might want to set up a velocity cross fade between a light strum and a heavy chunk. This would add a good bit a realism and could be used in place of the above method. One of the worst things about sampling (nature's fault I guess :-) is that it is very difficult to loop a natural decaying instrument. The only way I have done this successfully is with instruments whose tone gets very square (read 'simple') during their decay by setting up a quick alternating loop near the beginning of the fade and produce the real fade via the envelope filter. I'm interested in hearing your results! neil -- Date: Wed, 22 Aug 90 19:08:32 -0400 (EDT) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Sgroup Subject: Re: S-Library I received my disks back from George a few weeks ago, nice stuff! The idea of putting the Matrix drum sounds together was terrific! They immediatly spawned the idea for some rhythm stuff that I laid down. The rest of the samples are very nice too. It sounds like the library is building up nicely. I'll have to catch up on the new sounds a little later on. Recent additions to my collection inlude drums from the Proteus, and some old Mirage samples. neil -- Date: Thu, 23 Aug 90 00:24:33 -0400 (EDT) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: david!david@cis.ohio-state.EDU Subject: Re: Samples via e-mail. (R/W Roland disk on the Mac) CC: DTycholis.LAX1B@Xerox.COM, Sgroup I think this is a terrific idea. Unfourtunatly, I'm a voice with no hardcore programing support. I've recently picked up a Mac SE, and I love the thing, but I'm at no level a programmer. If we could rig up a sound transfer system, even if it were just tones, it would be great! Just to get me familiar, what kind of software/hardware does it take to port programs across the nets? (even normal programs for that matter since I've never done it). neil -- Date: Thu, 23 Aug 90 00:40:10 -0400 (EDT) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Sgroup Subject: Re: Bass Samples and MC Hammer Samples Don's idea reminds me of something I did. If your familiar with the song 'The Missing' from Ministry the beginning starts with a drum beat and a guitar riff. It is very repetitive, so by taking three .8 second samples I can recreate almost the entire song! It's fun to sit there and do your own remixes! neil -- >From: g.f.demarest@mtdca.att.com To: att!arpa!andrew.cmu.edu!Sgroup+@mtdca.att.com Date: 23 Aug 1990 10:01 EDT Subject: your kind words > >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger > To: Sgroup > Subject: Re: S-Library > > I received my disks back from George a few weeks ago, nice stuff! The idea of > putting the Matrix drum sounds together was terrific! They immediatly spawned I have just sampled some M3r drum sounds that are HOT++. I also have just spoken with a friend with and EPS (the antichrist sampler) and we're going to do some exchanging as well and I'll add that to the lib as well. Yes, new samples can be inspiring. > the idea for some rhythm stuff that I laid down. The rest of the samples are > very nice too. It sounds like the library is building up nicely. I'll have > to catch up on the new sounds a little later on. Recent additions to my > collection inlude drums from the Proteus, and some old Mirage samples. > > neil I am now a good deal more organized and turned around the last order in 2 days. Keep them coming, I'm enjoying the interaction... gfd P.S. sample everything... -- >From: g.f.demarest@mtdca.att.com To: att!arpa!andrew.cmu.edu!Sgroup+@mtdca.att.com Date: 23 Aug 1990 13:51 EDT Subject: Don Tycholis' fabled guitar samples Don, Any progress on these? gfd -- Date: Thu, 23 Aug 90 17:21:03 -0400 (EDT) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Sgroup Subject: Knew People We've got three new members, welcome guys! Feel free to post questions, needs suggestions, or favorite recipes, and in the immortal words of George Demarest "Sample Everything!". neil -- To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: Samples via e-mail. (R/W Roland disk on the Mac) Date: 24 Aug 90 17:12:06 EDT (Fri) >From: david!david@cis.ohio-state.edu (David A. Roth) >From uucp Thu Aug 23 20:29 EDT 1990 >>From andrew.cmu.edu!nh0n+ Thu Aug 23 20:29:53 1990 remote from osu-cis >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger >To: david!david >Subject: Re: Samples via e-mail. (R/W Roland disk on the Mac) >Cc: DTycholis.LAX1B@xerox.com, Sgroup > >I think this is a terrific idea. Unfourtunatly, I'm a voice with no hardcore >programing support. I've recently picked up a Mac SE, and I love the thing, >but I'm at no level a programmer. If we could rig up a sound transfer system, >even if it were just tones, it would be great! Just to get me familiar, what >kind of software/hardware does it take to port programs across the nets? (even >normal programs for that matter since I've never done it). > >neil > I found out that there is a utility called DART(tm) from apple that does handle these format disks for the Roland samplers but it requires use of the SuperDrive which not all Mac can support the SuperDrive. They would also need to be able to convert the DART archive format...in other words, buy the software. Since not everyone has a MAC it might be better and require not software development if was just stored the Tones in standard MIDI files. This is my first attempt on trying to do SysEx on the Roland so I am having a little problem with understand the interface. If anyone can help me out let me know, please. I will post as I make progress/run into problems/etc. David ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _TT /| |~ >====ttt===< | O| |~ att!osu-cis!david!david \{_|||_\ \\| O| or n8emr!david!david David A. Roth uunet!abvax!osu-cis!david!david From CompuServ: send >internet:david@david.uucp ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Subject: Disk sucker for s50 To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu (Roland Support Group) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 90 1:41:05 PDT >From: todd@ivucsb.sba.ca.us (Todd Day) I've written a quick and dirty program for my UNIXPC that reads all the data off an s50 disk. Luckily for me, the s50, the s550, the IBMPC, and the UNIXPC all use the same floppy disk controller. Note that I haven't refined the program to get at individual songs. Also note that the program will be easily transferable to the s550 and the IBMPC when done (will probably also run on the Amiga and Atari, but not Mac, as the Mac has strange drives). This is a totally blind hack. If someone has info on how the data is stored on the disk, things would go much, much faster... -- Todd Day | todd@ivucsb.sba.ca.us | ucsbcsl!ivucsb!todd "I believed what I was told, I thought it was a good life, I thought I was happy. Then I found something that changed it all..." --- Anonymous, 2112 -- Subject: S-50 disk reader To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu (Roland Support Group) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 90 17:18:15 PDT >From: todd@ivucsb.sba.ca.us (Todd Day) Okay, I spent this morning hacking up a small program to read from the S-50 format disk. I've gotten to the point of being able to identify many of the variables, but there are many missing. The problem comes when I try to read the data. I think the data is all 12 bit, packed into a 16 bit format of some kind. Right now, the program displays the title and notepad off the disk, all the patches plus some patch paramters, and all of the sounds plus some sound paramters. As it stands now, I wouldn't have to identify all of the parameters, as they are all contained in one block. I haven't figured out how to read the sound data yet, though... This program is written for the UNIXPC, but should be easily adaptable to any computer that can read and write IBM PC disks. Once I have this completed, it should be fairly easy to swap samples over the net. I think we should do it in the S-50 format. If I'm not mistaken, all the other versions of the Roland S series can read and write S-50 disks. -- Todd Day | todd@ivucsb.sba.ca.us | ucsbcsl!ivucsb!todd "I believed what I was told, I thought it was a good life, I thought I was happy. Then I found something that changed it all..." --- Anonymous, 2112 -- Subject: Mac to S-50 conversion To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu (Roland Support Group) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 90 0:32:55 PDT >From: todd@ivucsb.sba.ca.us (Todd Day) Well, I got myself hooked big time on doing file conversion for the S-50. I've written a conversion program that takes in files that have been distributed in alt.tv.simpsons lately and writes them out as the first sound on a freshly formatted S-50 disk. Then you can load them into anyplace you want in memory. It works on my UNIXPC right now. I should be able to convert it over to the IBMPC fairly painlessly. Unfortunately, the Mac only does 8bit, so the sound quality suffers a bit. It's always nice to get new samples, though. This also implies that the process will work in the other direction, although I haven't explored that yet. Give me a week, and I should be able to mock something up so we can exchange files over the net. -- Todd Day | todd@ivucsb.sba.ca.us | ucsbcsl!ivucsb!todd "I believed what I was told, I thought it was a good life, I thought I was happy. Then I found something that changed it all..." --- Anonymous, 2112 -- Date: Sun, 26 Aug 90 18:04:47 -0400 (EDT) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Sgroup Subject: Re: Mac to S-50 conversion Terrific work! It sounds like you've been pretty dedicated to working up the program, it sounds great. The S50 format is fine with me (since I own one), but keep in mind there is a program that can copy sounds from the S550 into sounds for the S50. I have it if anyone is interested in a copy. I have a Mac, so what damage does this 8 bit conversion thing do to the samples? Also, how are we going to get this program to users? Forgive me if these are stupid questions, but I'm not the greatest hack. neil -- Subject: S50 disks + theory + lotsa fun stuff in the schematics To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu (Roland Support Group) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 90 19:39:30 PDT >From: todd@ivucsb.sba.ca.us (Todd Day) %Terrific work! It sounds like you've been pretty dedicated to working up the %program, it sounds great. The S50 format is fine with me (since I own one), %but keep in mind there is a program that can copy sounds from the S550 into %sounds for the S50. I have it if anyone is interested in a copy. Yeah, I have that too. Got it from the dealer. I'm going to ramble a bit here and explain how the disk stuff works on an S50. Since the wave data is 12bits internally, the S50 must convert eight bit disk data to the twelve bit format. It reads in data off the disk three bytes at a time. Here is some sample data in hex format. Byte 1 Byte 2 Byte 3 ------ ------ ------ $AB $CD $EF To convert to twelve bits, it does this. Word 1 Word 2 ------ ------ $ABC $EFD Strange, eh? Here are some memory calculations... 512 bytes/sector * 36 sectors/sound_bank * 2 words/3 bytes = 12288 words/sound_bank (12288 words/sound_bank) / (30 kwords/sec sampling) = 0.4096 secs/sound_bank So this is where they get the 0.4 second increments for sampling. Let's see, there are two big banks of sounds (A & B) consisting of 7.2 secs of sound each (at 30kHz). So, we have 14.4 total_secs / (0.4 secs/bank) = 36 sound_banks 36 sound_banks * 12288 words/sound_bank = 442368 words of sampling memory But, the schematics say we have two banks of 512*512 words, or 524288. So, we have been cheated out of 81920 words. At 30kHz, this is 2.73 seconds! There is no excuse for losing those 2.73 seconds of sampling time (although it does make getting data off of disk a lot easier). The wave gate array chip has access to its own SRAM, so it doesn't need to use this 12-bit memory for anything. An interesting project would be to add another half a meg of RAM to this beastie. It could be done because CAS2 and CAS3 are unused. I suppose those are used in the S550 to double the amount of sounds. However, I suppose the S50 software wouldn't even recognize the extra memory. Too bad. Hmmm... maybe the reason they can't get that extra 2.73 seconds is because they can't pack the data onto the disk. Let's see... Total space on a disk = 512 bytes/sector * 9 sectors/track * 80 tracks/head * 2 heads = 737280 bytes = 491520 12bit-words Waveform data starts at hex $12000, which is 73728 bytes. This just happens to take up the equivalent of 4 sound_banks. How many sound_banks on a disk? 737280 bytes/disk * (2 words/3 bytes) / (12288 words/sound_bank) = 40 sound_banks/disk Subtract the program and header info, and we have 36 sound_banks/disk. There you have it! We are missing out on 2.73 secs because they can't fit it on the disk. So, a question for you. How does the S550 end up storing twice as many sound banks as the S50? The must have some kind of weird compression. Either that, or they use high density floppies. But since the S50 can read S550 disks, that would imply that the S50 can read/write HD disks. So what gives? Hey, looking at the schematics, I see they have a drive select 1 on the bus! Anyone think it's possible to daisy chain another drive onto this sucker? Wow, that's quite a ways off the original topic... going back... %I have a Mac, so what damage does this 8 bit conversion thing do to the %samples? Total loss of dynamic range and high end. Sampling on Mac is done at 22 or 11 kHz. No problem converting to S50 at 30 kHz, just press a key lower in tone and the sound comes out at normal pitch. %Also, how are we going to get this program to users? Forgive me if %these are stupid questions, but I'm not the greatest hack. After I get it converted to the IBMPC, I'll release a compiled version and the source. I would appreciate it if the people using it would send me their changes so I can be a clearing house of the latest and greatest version. Now that I've hacked the way the S50 does things (totally without ANY outside info, no less! (brag, brag)), I'd like to keep standardized versions of any conversion programs. -- Todd Day | todd@ivucsb.sba.ca.us | ucsbcsl!ivucsb!todd "I believed what I was told, I thought it was a good life, I thought I was happy. Then I found something that changed it all..." --- Anonymous, 2112 -- Subject: Hard disk for s50 To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu (Roland Support Group) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 90 19:41:45 PDT >From: todd@ivucsb.sba.ca.us (Todd Day) Anyone gotten the SCSI package for the s50? If so, could you describe it, please? I'm tired of doing disk changes... -- Todd Day | todd@ivucsb.sba.ca.us | ucsbcsl!ivucsb!todd "I believed what I was told, I thought it was a good life, I thought I was happy. Then I found something that changed it all..." --- Anonymous, 2112 -- Date: Mon, 27 Aug 90 15:47:51 PDT >From: Peter Delevoryas To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: S-550 question This is for anyone who has an S-550 WITH a hard disk, or that knows anything about the workings of both. Here is the problem: The S-550 has a 'Load bank with program change' feature, which allows you to send a program change to load 1 or both sound banks into memory. The midi channel which it is sent on has to be one other than the 8 channels displayed. As an example I have channels 1-8 displayed, and use channel 15 to load via program change. No problem there, it all works like it's supposed to. The problems start if you send any kind of midi message on channels 1-8 after loading with the program change. What happens is that the midi message triggers another 'load bank'. The only way I know to get around this is to send a midi message on a channel other than 1-8 right after loading with the ch. 15 'load bank' command. So you can see, if I don't send an extra midi message on one of chs. 9-16, then the first note-on, or controller change, etc., will load a new bank. That is no good. Since I don't know that much about midi, I hope someone can help me out with this. I haven't called Roland about it because I doubt if they can help me out (based on previous experiences). thanks. Peter D. -- >From: Thomas Flemming Date: Tue, 28 Aug 1990 12:17:40 +0200 To: todd@ivucsb.sba.ca.us Cc: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: Mac to S-50 conversion Nice nice TodDay! If you could mail the source-code for the 8bit to S-50 disk conversion program, then maybe I could convert it to Atari. The disk format is almost the same for the Atari as standard PC 3.5" 750K disks. Also if you are looking for 8bit sounds ,terminator.cc.umich.edu is loaded with megabytes of 8bit samples up to 40K-sampling rate. Try ftp from atari/sound/sounds/ or msdos/sound/. Thomas 'loopmaster' Flemminginginginging -- Date: Tue, 28 Aug 90 12:57:30 -0400 >From: Don Law To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: Samples via e-mail. (R/W Roland disk on the Mac) I haven't had much time to continue my S-10 => Voyetra/PC => Unix project, but I' throw out one piece of info that might help: Eric S. Crawley writes: > The first is that there is no way to send sysex dumps > from the panels of Roland Samplers. I don't think there is one docuemented, but on my S-10 there is a key combination that will do it. I think it is hold down "midi" and press "enter." FWIW (For What It's Worth). --Don Law dlaw@encore.com ...!uunet!gould!dlaw --Ada Development, MS404 --Encore Computer Corporation ***** In the computer lab, **** --Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33313 ***** No one can hear you scream. ***** -- Date: Tue, 28 Aug 90 10:37:11 -0700 >From: pete%WLBR@WLV.IMSD.CONTEL.COM (Pete Lyall) To: dlaw@encore.com, sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: Samples via e-mail. (R/W Roland disk on the Mac) I believe the combiniation is something like F1 + MIDI, and then you can scroll backwards and forwards through ONE WAY/HANDSHAKE SEND/RECEIVE options. If you have the manual, it's in fine print in the memory map stuff. Pete -- Date: Tue, 28 Aug 90 15:09 EDT >From: Eric S. Crawley Subject: Re: Samples via e-mail. (R/W Roland disk on the Mac) To: Pete Lyall Cc: dlaw@encore.com, sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Gee, I didn't know there was a way to initiate a sysex dump from the S-50. Does anyone know a way to do it from an S-330? -- Date: Tue, 28 Aug 90 13:11:18 -0700 >From: pete%WLBR@WLV.IMSD.CONTEL.COM (Pete Lyall) To: ESC@RIVERSIDE.SCRC.Symbolics.COM, pete%WLBR@WLV.IMSD.CONTEL.COM Subject: Re: Samples via e-mail. (R/W Roland disk on the Mac) Cc: dlaw@encore.com, sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Probably - I _now_ have an S-330 (had an MKS-100) and the IBM Sample Editing package SAMPLEVISION can extract the sample data without front panel diddling... I just don't know how yet. Pete -- >From: gfd@mtdca.att.com >From: g.f.demarest@mtdca.att.com To: att!andrew.cmu.edu!Sgroup+@mtdca.att.com Date: 29 Aug 1990 10:09 EDT Subject: Don T. Don Tycholis where are you?? (sung to the tune of "Car 54 where are you?"). To all others, I have a line on getting the full set of Roland R8 drum machine sounds. I know a salesman in the keyboards dept of the local Sam Ash. My next task is to get him to do the HR-16b samples. Any activity out there? I'm going to do another Matrix 1000 disk soon since I've gotten good feedback from several people. anyway, DON, GET IN TOUCH!!! To the rest: Peace and Samples gfd -- >From: att!andrew.cmu.edu!nh0n+@mtdca.att.com Date: Wed, 29 Aug 90 13:54:46 -0400 (EDT) To: att!andrew.cmu.edu!Sgroup+@mtdca.att.com Subject: Re: Don T. The new disk possibilities sound good. I am building up a few new ones now too, but I'll wait until I have a few to send you before I trade again. School has started up again too which will unfortunatly slow my musical activities. sincerely sampling, neil -- >From: g.f.demarest@mtdca.att.com To: att!arpa!andrew.cmu.edu!Sgroup+@mtdca.att.com Date: 29 Aug 1990 14:54 EDT Subject: limited advice I neglected to mention, I had a very interesting talk with my salesmen friend at San Ash about the S-550 and sample rate conversion. He told me and then demonstrated to me that he could download 44.1k sampling rate samples to the S-550 without having to convert rates. The reason why this is limited is that there aren't that many ways to get any samples downloaded without a computer and some sample- editing software. As I have mentioned, I use Digidesigns stuff, but I'm sure that it would work with others. The procedure is easy. If I wish to download a 1-second sample from the computer to the sampler, I would simply have a longer sample allocated on the sampler to make up for the extra samples at the faster rate (in this instance, I'd allocate a 1.2 second sample). This is limited good news for most, but extra good for those who have Digidesigns stuff. I plan to do all my sampling like this from now on in order to get that better fidelity. Peace, gfd -- Date: Wed, 29 Aug 90 14:08:47 PDT >From: jeff%jeff.esd@sgi.com (Jeff Mock) To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: ftp site for samples? I'm now a proud S-770 owner. Is there an ftp site where samples are kept? How are you guys exchanging data? jeff mock jeff@sgi.com -- >From: Thomas Flemming Date: Thu, 30 Aug 1990 17:42:02 +0200 To: jeff%jeff.esd@sgi.com Cc: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: ftp site for samples? Welcome Jeff, until now we have only been exchanging samples by surface mail. But since it's possible to read and write S-50 disks on a normal IBM-PC with a 3.5"drive we'll hopefully be able to send some kind of standard files via email. This will also work for Amiga's and Atari's (with PC emulator). Also this is a much cleaner and faster way of transfering samples than by MIDI. I've also discovered that the S-50 and W-30 (and proabably also the S-330) stores the samples on exactly the same disk sectors, so it will practically be enough with just one program. Thomas Flemming -- Date: Thu, 30 Aug 90 11:18:41 PDT >From: jeff%jeff.esd.sgi.com@SGI.COM (Jeff Mock) To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu, gfd@mtdca.att.com Subject: Re: ftp site for samples? George and group, Roland, in their infinite wisdom, built the S-770 in such a way that it can read and convert S-550/W-30 sample disks, but it can't write them. The S-770 format is unique. So, I can go to the music store and copy the Roland catalog but I can't send you my collection of kitchen sounds. This is really anti-social on Roland's part. I have Alchemy on my Mac and I've nearly got a HyperMIDI stack to suck data out of the S-770, mostly so I can backup my sampler on tape. If someone figures out how to use a Mac to read and write Roland disks I'll be able to share data. Does anyone know how to solve this problem? jeff -- >From: g.f.demarest@mtdca.att.com To: att!arpa!andrew.cmu.edu!Sgroup+@mtdca.att.com Date: 30 Aug 1990 14:56 EDT Subject: Sample DAT! I neglected to mention in my last re-re-repost of Library options that I have a DAT machine in my studio. For any who also use DAT and wish to transport samples dat way, that's fine with me. It's especially good since DAT samples at the higher sampling rate (and as my last posting said, I can tranfer samples very easily with my system at the higher sampling rate without any conversion (of course, you do lose 4 bits worth of resolution. Hey, it's an imperfect world :-)). Once again, of limited use to most, perhaps, but any way we can expand the user-created sound library is to the advantage of all particpants. be good, gfd -- To: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: Mac to S-50 conversion Date: 30 Aug 90 15:30:41 EDT (Thu) >From: david!david@cis.ohio-state.edu (David A. Roth) >From uucp Tue Aug 28 06:29 EDT 1990 >>From andrew.cmu.edu!nh0n+ Tue Aug 28 06:29:51 1990 remote from osu-cis >To: todd@ivucsb.sba.ca.us >Cc: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu >In-Reply-To: Todd Day's message of Sun, 26 Aug 90 0:32:55 PDT <9008260032.AA03552@ivucsb.sba.ca.us> >Subject: Re: Mac to S-50 conversion >Status: RO > >Nice nice TodDay! > >If you could mail the source-code for the 8bit to S-50 disk conversion >program, then maybe I could convert it to Atari. The disk format is almost >the same for the Atari as standard PC 3.5" 750K disks. > >Also if you are looking for 8bit sounds ,terminator.cc.umich.edu is loaded >with megabytes of 8bit samples up to 40K-sampling rate. Try ftp from >atari/sound/sounds/ or msdos/sound/. > >Thomas 'loopmaster' Flemminginginginging > I'm confused or perhaps I missed something here. Why would anyone want 8-bit sounds on a Roland sampler (i.e.S-330/550, S-50) David -- To: pete%WLBR@wlv.imsd.contel.com Subject: Re: Samples via e-mail. (R/W Roland disk on the Mac) Cc: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Date: 30 Aug 90 15:35:19 EDT (Thu) >From: david!david@cis.ohio-state.edu (David A. Roth) > >From uucp Wed Aug 29 08:18 EDT 1990 >>From andrew.cmu.edu!nh0n+ Wed Aug 29 08:18:54 1990 remote from osu-cis >Date: Tue, 28 Aug 90 10:37:11 -0700 >From: pete%WLBR@wlv.imsd.contel.com (Pete Lyall) >Message-Id: <9008281737.AA16499@WLBR.IMSD.CONTEL.COM> >To: dlaw@encore.com, sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu >Subject: Re: Samples via e-mail. (R/W Roland disk on the Mac) >Status: R > >I believe the combiniation is something like F1 + MIDI, and then you can >scroll backwards and forwards through ONE WAY/HANDSHAKE SEND/RECEIVE options. >If you have the manual, it's in fine print in the memory map stuff. > >Pete > Are you refering to the S-10 or the S-50 series? David -- Date: Thu, 30 Aug 90 13:17:41 -0700 >From: pete%WLBR@WLV.IMSD.CONTEL.COM (Pete Lyall) To: david!david@cis.ohio-state.edu, pete%WLBR@WLV.IMSD.CONTEL.COM Subject: Re: Samples via e-mail. (R/W Roland disk on the Mac) Cc: sgroup+@andrew.cmu.edu Dave - That F1/MIDI stuff was S10/MKS100/MKS220... Pete