From mailbox.syr.edu!naherzin Sat Oct 31 20:17:55 1992 Received: from mailbox.syr.edu ([128.230.18.5]) by watdragon.uwaterloo.ca with SMTP id <168406-1>; Sat, 31 Oct 1992 20:17:47 -0500 Received: from rodan.acs.syr.edu by mailbox.syr.edu (4.1/CNS) id AA10168; Sat, 31 Oct 92 20:18:06 EST Received: by rodan.acs.syr.edu (4.1/Spike-2.0) id AA29746; Sat, 31 Oct 92 20:13:21 EST Message-Id: <9211010113.AA29746@rodan.acs.syr.edu> To: jmsellen@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca Subject: 1990 feb-mar Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1992 20:13:20 -0500 From: "neil herzinger" Status: R Date: Fri, 23 Feb 90 15:52:21 -0500 (EST) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Neil Anthony Herzinger Subject: S-series discussions Hey there. If you are getting this message, than you must have expressed interest in discussing sounds for the S-50/550/330 (Well, it was S-50 at first but the 550/330 owners outnumber the S-50's!). If you do not want to take part in this than feel free to send me hate mail and tell me to get you the hell off of the mailing-list. I really don't see this as being a major user's group/discussion group thing, but more an informal correspondence, and maybe some sound reviewing/trading. Now, what I need is feedback from you guys on how you want this to work. I would be happy to manage the messages and distribute them to interested parties (although I am very much a computer amateur, and it would all be done by personal mail). If I did this, I would just compile the information and send it out. I could post a list of names (10 so far), and everyone could send to everyone else. If anyone has suggestions, please let me know. My first problem: I was made aware that S-50 sounds can be translated into S-550 format by the machine itself, but not vice/versa. Is it the same with the S-330? One S-330 owner (Patrick (I don't know your last name!)) mentioned he had an editor or something to transfer sounds to S-50 format. Is this true? That would be a terrific addition to the S-50 library. Please everyone straighten me out on this. An S-550 owner (Gary Murakami) stated that he owned the CD-5 and CD-Rom units. I would guess these are coded with system exclusive sound data (As opposed to CD's that contain actual sounds that the user is to sample him/herself). Enlighten me on this as well. I have ordered two 'samplers' and catalogs from companies that advertised in the back of keyboard magazinge (Glove prod. and PSL prod.) The latter has yet to arive, but I do have the Glove sampler disk. I will post a review of this disk and a description of their catalog shortly. Brian Reitz is pursuing the 'Navarrophonic Prod.' demo cassette (also from back of Keyboard). If anyone already has info on these and other companies, please post reviews! Another topic I'd like to discuss is sound trading. If someone has the full factory catalog on disk, it would probably be easier for me to get copies from them than at my local music store (It is an incredible pain in the ass, and actually impossible sometimes to copy sounds, not to mention the drive). I would also be interested in hearing about user-samples. I have sampled my Kawai R-100 drum machine, and also fooled around with some synth samples. So far I have had mixed results, but some are quite decent. The drum machine for instance was very easy to do and came out quite well. I mainly did it for practice, but also to have these sounds in my sampler. I am going to work more with my and other peoples equipment (I enjoy messing with the sampling process in itself). Anyone have sounds and/or comments? Well, that's it for now. I'll do a complete review of the Glove sampler disk soon and send it out. I'm looking forward to our information exchange. And again, if anyone has any suggestions at all about how to handle this, please let me know. neil -- Date: Mon, 26 Feb 90 01:05:34 -0500 (EST) >From: Neil Anthony Herzinger To: Neil Anthony Herzinger Subject: S-group issue #1 Hi, I promised a review of Glove Productions, so here it is. If anyone has further questions, please send them. Likewise, if anyone has had experience with Glove Prod. and wants to add something or disagree, please respond as well. Glove Productions PO Box 11168 Eugene, OR 97404-3368 Classified Ad in Keyboard Magazine (Feb '90): "Roland S-50 samples! Send $10.00 for our current catalogue of over 210 disks and the Glove 'sampler' disk!!!" I responded and received my copy within a week, but a fellow user (Don Tycholis)had a lot of trouble getting his disk. It took him about 6 or 7 months and a few letters to the company and Keyboard Magazine. From reading the cover letter, I got the impression that they have been delayed in getting the disk out recently: "...we sincerely apologize for the delay in filling your initial order. etc..." Another thing is that they mention 'soon expanding' their library to S-550 sounds, and since Don is a S-550 user, this could also be part of the problem. Anyway, on to the review. 'SAMPLE DISK' P1 Kit-Keys-Clarinet The drum kit consists of decent bass and snare sounds probably taken from a drum machine, a below-average clap, and quite good hi hats and triangle. The hi hat has closed, half-open, and full open tones, the triangle is a single strike and very good quality. The Keys and Clarinet sound like average DX7 sounds and are not too impressive, but are useable. P2 Kit Slap Chord Same kit with addition of a gated bass drum and a tight snare, the snare is pretty short and wimpy and the bass is ok, but these two don't go together well. In addition there is an orchestra hit of mediocre quality. The slap bass is a great sound, but is a little short. The chord is done by a clean guitar and sounds fairly good but useability is questionable. P3 Kit Bass Organ Same Kit with an additional vocal type sound, very interesting sounding. The bass and Organ sounds are quite forgetable and quite cheap, but would be useable if you needed that 'thin' sound. P4 Kit Low Dist Same Kit and orch, vocal sound. The low bass is slightly better than P3's. The distorted guitar chord is pretty good, but similar to the clean chord in useability. P5 Orch Bass Horn We've heard the orch and bass before. The horn is pretty cheap and sounds quite synthesized, but then again it's good if your looking for that type of sound. P6 J'ammond This is just a full keyboard of the organ in P3. It's a pretty thin sound, and quite fake, but it would do for a really mellow backing sound. P7 G-keys 1 The interesting vocal sound. The DX7 sound from P1 P8 Lows & Horns The horn from P5 and another one that is a good bit better OVERALL: Several of these sounds are pretty thin, but then of course they come from synthesizers that sound like that. I shouldn't judge the fact that they sound like that, but their quality. All sampling is excellent, no noise, and seamless loops. It makes me think they used the cheaper sounds because they are easier to loop and sound better. All drum sounds are pretty good and quite useable. It bothers me that they didn't have a great variety, but I guess that is hard to do with one disk. CATALOG Disks are sold three ways: Grouped, Custom, and Mixed. The grouped disks are grouped by instrument and organized by catagory. Custom disks are groups of tones that you specify you want (chosen from group disks). Mixed disks are custom disks of Glove's own choosing. The prices are extremely high in my opinion: $20 each for grouped, and $35 each for custom and mixed. >From the look of the catalog, they are quite serious. They have disks that are completely dedicated to single things such as hi hat cymbals or snares. Here is a list of disk types: Acoustic Instruments Pianos Acoustic Drums Cymbals Tuned Percussion Orchestral Percussion Percussion FX Latin Percussion Guitars Bass Drum Machines Electronic Drums Synthesizers Sound FX If anybody wants more information on the catalog, please drop me a note. Well, I have been getting some responces to the original post, but I'll wait a few more days until I compile things and send out the next issue. neil -- Hi all. Sorry it's taken me awhile to get things together, but midterms will do that to you. I've gotten a few responses, but more feedback/discussion would be great. Gary Murakami has forwarded me a complete list of Roland factory sounds for both libraries (S-50 and S-550/330). The list includes the names of all patches on the disks, thus it is long. Because of the length, I won't forward it unless you want me to. Just drop a note to say so. He also enlightened me to the CD-Rom unit. It is basically all the factory sounds on CD-Rom disks. He sent me a listing of the sounds on that as well, and I will forward it if interested, just let me know >From Gary Murakami: >If I remember correctly, the newer versions of the system disk for the S-550 >include tools to convert between S-50 and S-550 disks in both directions. >I can try to check this out for you if you want. Yes, please! It would be terrific if we 50 users could expand our library even more. It would also make trading between 50 and 550 users easier. No one has answered my question about the 330 yet. Does it operate on the same system as the 550? I would assume so, since the factory library is listed as 550/330. >From Don Tycholis: >I like the idea of trading samples with other members. The EMU owners >have been doing it for years. If someone could compile a list of desired >samples, we could volunteer to contribute to a common "library". I have >the entire factory S-50 library (but converted to S-550 format; sorry:-) >and about half of the S-550 library and will trade with anyone, or make >copies for a very nominal handling charge. A common library sounds like a great idea. If the conversion software mentioned above is available, then I would suggest a 550 owner keeping it. Any takers? >Here's a build on your idea of trading/contributing to the library: I'm >willing to sample my drum machine (Yamaha RX-5) since it would be easily >done. Next, my guitars: Fender MusicMaster Bass, Gibson Les Paul, >Charvel Model 6, Spanish nylon string. Last, If you know what kind of >timbres you want, I'm willing to go for my synths: Yamaha DX7, TX81Z (I >have around 3000 DX7 patches). Tell me what notes or sounds you want, >what sort of effects (fuzz, chorus, reverb, Rockman) if any are desired. >I'll also sample the sounds made by my MacPlus (except for "#374: Mac hard >disk crashing...") and if you insist, my Mustang GT 5.0L V-8 :-) >Since creating all the performance parameters (not to mention finding the >perfect loop!) for a complete patch can be very time-consuming I would >like prefer to contribute just the raw tones for someone else to tweak >(this might be much easier if I had Alchemy, but I'm waiting until the >price comes down or a cheaper and better one comes around...yeah, I'm a >dreamer). What do you say guys, any interest in building a library of >just raw tones? Yeah, this is the idea I had. So far I have just sampled my drum machine (Kawai R-100), but I have fooled with my synths (Roland Juno-106 and Oberheim Matrix-1000). Looping synth sounds is pretty rough. I would suggest just making a raw sample that is long enough to loop. That is fair, since I wouldn't expect anyone to spend so much time for me, also someone might have software to make it easier. I only have the built in software to work with, but I find it adequate. I for one am in need of good guitar samples, and synths would never hurt. I also can use as many drum samples as I can get my hands on, I was going to sample my friends R-5 this summer (but sooner, the better). I think sampling your car is a great idea, I've sampled my lawn mowers! >From David Roth: >Great! Thanks for creating the mailing list. Send a message to >...osu-cis!att!twitch!midi which is a mailing list for midi to >announce about your mailing list. There are some Roland sampler users >in the mailing list too. Forgive me for not being a computer expert, but I can't figure out that address. Help?! >Since the 3.5 disks are not in any IBM or MAC format I was thinking to >think of a way to be able to exchange sound samples over the net. >Since I just got my S-330 I have not been able to try this out but >this might work out. If the Roland can dump via MIDI the samples in >memory and be saved as System Exclusive data to a Standard Midi >File(SMF) this data file could then be uuencoded on UNIX send sent via >e-mail. Anyone know more about this? Again, out of my league. Anyone out there who can help out? >From David Roth: >About buying sounds in general. I don't think I could buy sounds/samples >for any synth without being able to hear exactly what I would be paying for. >Unless a friend has them for you to listen to or your local music >dealer I can't picture buying them mail order. I think getting a demo >disk is a good idea but even if the sounds on the demo were great the >rest of the library might be less impressive. Yeah I agree. In the case of Glove though, I think they were holding back on their best samples because of space. They list about 5 disks of D-50 samples, but if they included one it might take up too much room. I would be willing to copy to Glove sampler disk for anyone interested. Does anybody have music stores around them that carry 3rd party sounds? >From Brian Reitz: >Sounds like the first sample disk from Glove was a wash. I'm real interested >in what the PSL sounds would be like. I have a need for the D-50 sort of >airy background texture. Well, Glove disks are pretty expensive, but it seems they have some professional samples (such as their percussion disks). I really would like some good synth samples myself. I still haven't received my PSL demo tape, but I have received my canceled check. For anyone who doesn't know, PSL productions offers a 10 disk set of 64 Roland D-50 samples for $69.95. That's a pretty good price when you consider other places sell disks for $15 to $35 dollars. It seems to me that they jack their prices up because they are expecting people to copy them. Any feedback? I got my back ordered issue of Keyboard Magazine's Third Party sound issue (Jan '89). There's a really big list of 3rd party sound developers for all keyboards. The list of companies for the 50/550/330 has only two companies that also advertise in the classifieds (which is where I got my previous list). Here is their list: Club 50: 90 sampled disks $15 each Comm Sci S-50: 32 sample disks 6-disk set $89, 10 disk set $159, complete $399 Eye and I: Voice crystal synth sample library: 4 volumes, 3 disks per volume, 3 sounds per disk, $35.85 per volume MIDImouse: 19 disks $24.95 each Navarrophonic: 10 disks, 5-disk set $80 Northstar: 44 disks, 8 presets per disk, $15 each Outrigger: 200 disks, $20 a disk, (discounts for bulk orders) Roland: 12 disks, check with dealer [12 disks?!?!?!? what?!] Uberschall: 15$ a disk, 10 disks $120, demo cassette and sound list $8 PSL is listed under the S-10 only, but they have a classified in the back of this issue that is identical to their current classified. Keyboard probably just screwed up. Navarrophonic is in the recent issues, and Outrigger might be Glove now, I'm not sure. If anybody has any info on these companies, let us know. My last question: Has anyone had any contact with Soundsations? They advertise 7 cassettes each with 500 to 1000 sounds on them from sources such as DX7, Kurzweil, D-50, M1, and Proteus. They list them as multi-samples, that probably accounts for the high number of 'sounds', but it would still be alot. They are $24.95 a piece. I am very interested in these because they seem pretty inexpensive, and if the quality is good, there shouldn't be much difference between sampling the instrument itself, and using these tapes. Well, that's it for now. I would really appreciate feedback on points raised in this issue, or any new discussion/news. See ya. neil -- Hi All. Well, there hasn't been an overwhelming amount of responses, so I thought I'd wait a little longer before I sent out the third issue. There are a couple of unanswered questions still. Does anybody know about S-550 to S-50 conversion software? I know the 550 and 330 can convert the S-50 format to their own, but how about the other way around? Also does anyone have any feedback on the 'sample library' idea from the last issue? It would be great to get a collective source of alternative sounds. I am still waiting for the PSL sampler tape, I'm definitely going to call them today to see what's going on. I ordered it a month ago, and they quickly cashed my check, but no tape. Does anyone else have a sampler tape/disk from other manufacturers? If so, write up a small review if time permits or just send an address or whatever. I got one of the 'Sample Tapes' from Soundsations. It has about 90 Proteus sounds, and each sound has 5 to 11 multisamples. I'll write up a review of this later. >From David Roth: >BTW, folks. I use an Akai EVI(Electronic Valved Instrument) wind >controller with my S-330. I have found out that it works best to have >the EVI send MIDI volume control info than aftertouch. Make sure that >you have volume set to 'on' from the MIDI/message screen. Since the >S-330 doesn't except portamento (controller #5 I believe) you might >as well shut it off from the EVI's brain module (EWV-2000) if you are >using the wind controller to sequence which is what I mainly use it >for. Any other wind controller users out there? Well, that's all the input I got, except for a few new guys who joined the group (from MMML). Welcome guys! Please Respond! Even if it's to tell me what you had for dinner last night! Send a comment. Send a question. Get a third party demo tape and post a review, anything! Send me your thoughts on creating a sample library of our own, I'd really like to do this! I would be willing to keep it, but only in S-50 format ('cause that's all I got). respond! neil